Gas - more of a story of how not to really.
Mat Windrum 2003
Hymer with internal locker for 2 bottles, supplied with single "German"
30mBar regulator.
Objective - firstly to get an auto changer then to get round the problem of
having to use different bottles and regulators for each country or part of.
(Not a logical route I now know)
I would also warn anyone that I am not a qualified anything so cannot vouch
for anything. But then I found that this also applies to the qualified as well
- more of which later.
Stage 1
New Hymers are sold with a single hose and a "German regulator" set
to 30Mbar and all the appliances work off that pressure. The locker fits 2 Flow
gas bottles 23.5kg gross, 11 kg or 26.2l gas, dia. 300mm ht 560mm.
Stage 2
I put in an auto-changer, which switched over from the empty to full bottle.
This has its own 2-stage regulator and is really designed for domestic household
use at 37mBar. They were made by Calor then by Gavagna but now by Gaslow 01509 843331.
The only problem with them is that if you knock the indicator cap when handling
a bottle it is possible to knock the changeover mechanism off with dire results.
You can rebuild it and retension the spring - if you have found the parts in
the dark! The solution is to cut a plastic bottle to fit over, a bodge that
works.
The changeover has 2 tails with Calor propane connectors and allowed me to
run happily in UK. And a bottle lasted a week of cold weather with everything
on the go including 2 daily showers, cooking and central heating.
New vans run on 30mBar and need a new regulator. The changeover can be purchased
separately if you have a current regulator be it 30 or 37mBar.
Stage 3
I then heard that Truma make an auto-changer and what's more it would be possible
to get refillable bottles.
Well we saved £8000 - yes the noughts are correct - when we bought the
van abroad so after being quoted over £500 for 2 bottles in the UK we
bought them in Belgium for €250
But - there are a lot of these, we then went to the Dusseldorf show and found
2 manufacturers of bottles and fittings and discovered that the bottles we have
are not of the latest spec, which is perhaps why they were so cheap.
Our bottles have ullage valves that must be cracked open when filling and shut
off when liquid gas comes out. This happens when the bottle is about 80% full.
( this can cause some consternation on the forecourt. Imagine spilling petrol
on the ground to get the right amount!).
It's illegal to fill more than 80% and positively unsafe more than 90%. (We
have done so several times before we got to know better with no problems and
there is a safety valve to blow off if necessary but really not advisable.)
A little physics here. When filling the gas gets cold as it charges the bottle,
consequently it will expand later as it heats up to ambient temperature. An
expanding liquid could split the bottle in theory but what would happen in practice
is the safety valve would blow. Not done one but could be noisy and possibly
dangerous.
All has now been solved as later tanks have a float valve much like car tanks
so they cut off the flow of gas when 80% is reached. Make sure you get that
type. As there is a gauge on our bottles we can switch off at 80% or only fill
a set amount of gas - say 18ltr. max. in our 22ltr bottles.
It took a lot of asking around before we cracked this one, the fairy stories
told with great authority by experts were legion.
For Hymer owners -I am under the impression that ALL refillable bottles are
550/560mm high. The solution is to cut a wedge, using an angle grinder, out
of the corner of the protection ring on the top of the bottle. (Naughty but
does the job).
The really bad news was that the connection on the new bottles was for German
regulators so we had to replace our changeover with the original German regulator
and swap bottles when they were empty.
We travelled in Belgium, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Austria and
had no problem getting the bottles refilled. Sometimes the garage was puzzled
to see a bottle but when shown the adaptor happily filled - often to 100% capacity!
We did some talking around as we were concerned about the different type of
fillers and have found that one needs 3 main types. Our bottle comes with the
most common EEC type called a "Italian dish" so we bought at a garage
the "Dutch bayonet"- UK type and an "Acme thread" type.
See more at;
http://www.lpga.co.uk/abroad
http://www.autogas-forum.de/links/links-e
Stage 4
On our return to UK we did some more research as we wanted to have a fixed
external filler to avoid humping bottles and also a new auto-changer and 30mBar
regulator. We had been using 37mBar with no problems in the van designed for
30m/bar but it seemed sensible to change to the correct setting.
Truma (technical 01283 528201) do an auto-changer called a Duomatic Plus or
L Plus with de-icing device (freezing condensation can block the regulator but
its not considered a problem on inboard gas lockers.) However these are fitted
with Calor tails in UK and they do not supply the necessary tails to convert
to other bottles. You have to go abroad to buy the same product with the "German"
tail (Little England creeps in here).
Truma also do a Triomatic, which no longer meets the new regulations. It may
be phased out soon. Basically it has a Ist stage regulator secured on the bulkhead
then two more on the bottles, which activate the changeover (0.6 and 0.3 mbar).
The Duomatic has a regulator for each bottle only.
We have found that it is not possible to have a fixed filler as its not possible
to cut off the filling at 80% unless there is an in tank float valve. We must
refill each bottle seperatly.
Stage 5
I rang the maker of our original changeover - Gaslow - to find that mine was
operating at 37mBar - domestic! However they now make a 30mBar and supply all
the possible tails for whatever bottle is made, including camping gaz. (to us
for £90 odd)
I have another use for our old changeover so no loss there and have a new 30mBar
auto-changer with 2 "German" tails.
I also carry an adaptor for my reserve camping gaz bottle and a tail for Italy
and Spain should I not be able to refill LPG and have to revert to local bottles.
Confused? Well do not do what we did. Buy bottles with float cutouts. Get your
adaptors and tails and save 50% on your gas as well as being able to get it
in different countries without having to change bottles.
Consider fitting a LPG tank instead of bottles and if petrol driven run both
off gas. It's a whole lot cheaper.
I always use a gas leak detection spray when I make any connection including
changing bottles after I lost a bottle full when there was a minor leak. The
fittings take quite a hammering on the road and can easily be damaged.
I also use non-hardening gas joint sealer (Bonner Gas-Tite) on any fixed joints
for the same reason. Both bought from any plumber's merchant.
Helpful contacts
Gaslow 01509 843331
Gordan Wise 01845 523213
Autogas Gwent 0870 7461262
Richard Cecil 01594 563538
http://www.flogas.co.uk
FES Autogas 01286 8820
Autogas 2000 Thirsk 01845 523213
Campirama Belgium 0032(0)56356258
http://www.lpga.co.uk/abroad
http://www.autogas-forum.de/links/links-e
Seen at Dusseldorf show selling everything imaginable for LPG
Wynen http://www.wynen-gas.de tel 0 21 62)35 66 99
Also
GuG Vertriebsgesellschaft mbh tel. 0 25 61 971 323 but their brochure shows
the old type of bottles.
New regulation EN 1949 partially replaces British Standard BS5482 part 2.
From September 2003 all new motor homes will have a single regulator fixed
in place set to 30mbar.
It will be possible to buy different pigtails to fit all the bottles including
camping gas.
There is some confusion as to the use of auto-changers and how they fit the
new regulations. I do not know the answer.
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How to fit refillable LPG bottles to your Motorhome ?
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