Winterising a motorhome
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 Motorhome Facts -> Tech / Mech Chat
Author: monster1,  PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:34 am    Post subject:  Winterising a motorhome
Hi All

I am hoping to use my Dethleffs coachbuilt van this winter for skiing and I need some advice on how to make it capable of surviving the freezing temperatures in the Alpes.

I know that Dethleffs have a winterise option on new purchases but my local dealer says this cannot be retrofitted to older (1995) vans. So I would like to try doing it myself.

So far I have found some sugestions about getting heat tape for the water pipes and the insulating the pipes. Does anyone know where I can get this HEAT TAPE, is it expensive, can I power it via the leisure battery or whether this is not the best solution. ? Is there a possibility of melting plastic water pipes ?

I am also going to insulate the floor with polystyrene blocks. I aim to cut it so that I can wedge it in place. has anybody tried this and if so have you any advice as to how to make sure the stuff stays in place ?

I also was a US web site mentioned shrink to fit plastic that can be used to better insulate the windows. Has anybody heard of this stuff ? If so do you have any advice on where to get it and how to install it ? Is there a better option ?

So basically I need to try and insulate the van really and although I have heard a few ideas Im not really sure what is the best way to proceed. Therfore any advice on insulating the van would be great.

I hope someone can help me on these matters.

Thanks

P.s can anyone that has tried using there van for winter camping/skiing recommend good campsites with hook up and good facilities
Author: peejay, 

Location: Narfook

 PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject:  
Hi monster1,

Any exterior water pipes are going to be a problem, you can insulate them but this wont totally stop them from freezing, the most foolproof way is for all pipework to run inside the vehicle and I would look to see if this is possible first.

The same applies to water tanks both fresh and waste, lagging them is not really the solution as, if they do eventually freeze them they will take twice as long to thaw.
Most European vans have the fresh tank inside the vehicle so this shouldn’t be a problem in your case, but many have the waste tank underslung at the rear, the best solution to this is to leave the drain tap open on site and a good old bucket slung underneath and emptied regularly, much less hassle if the bucket freezes that the whole tank!

Fitting heating elements to underslung tanks along with lagging and the heat tape you mention to exterior pipes (although I’ve never heard of heat tape) is a possibility, but this would only be successful if they were always on, you’d have to be very careful off site for example parking up for a few hours.

I wouldn’t have thought it necessary to add poly blocks to the floor but it certainly wouldn’t hurt and as you say you’d have to make sure they were adequately fitted.

I presume your window are the plastic double glazed type and if so there should be no need to further insulate them, drawing the blinds and curtains at night should suffice.

Some futher tips ;

Leave locker doors open overnight, the heat will then enter preventing condensation.

Fit exterior silverscreens and if its really cold interior silverscreens to cab windows.

When on mains elecs lift the cable every day to prevent it freezing to the ground or getting buried in snow.

You will use loads of gas for heating so consider purchasing refillable bottles if you,ve only got a small locker. Blown air would make the interior heat more even and prevent cold spots. If you’ve got ultraheat or some other form of mains heating be aware that continental sites often have low amp hook ups hence more reliability on gas.

Snow chains and a folding shovel are a must.

If you’re considering using non mains aires, sites make sure you’ve got a good healthy leisure battery or consider fitting another in tandem to boost your amperage.

When parked up for long periods leave vehicle in gear, chock the wheels and leave handbrake off if possible, prevents rear drums freezing on.

There’s loads of other info I cant remember at the moment (it’s me age) but I’m sure someone else will add to the list.

We’ve done a bit of winter camping in the vosges region of France and in and around Chamonix, there are many sites and aires suitable for winter camping as long as you’re properly prepared.

Chamonix, 'camping les rosieres' www.campinglesrosieres.com and 'camping les duex glaciers' We've stayed at the former and can recommend it but not the latter although heard good reports.

If you fancy some snow closer to the ferries, try the vosges region around Gerardmer, theres a municipal site 'domain de longemer' at xonrupt longemer and another at la bresse just up the road 'camping le haut des bluches', i can recommend both.

Happy travels

Pete.
Author: eurajohn, 

Location: Mayenne France

 PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:35 pm    Post subject:  
Heat trace tape is commonly used in industry and is readily available.

Not really sure whether or not would be any good on a camper as it wouldn't be a viable battery powered solution (like any heating application)

John.
Author: PamNPete,  PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject:  Winterising MHome
Smile Yes Heater tape is used in industry. We used to get it in 100 yd rolls (1960's).
Consider a fish tank heater in the water tanks (both) met some people winter 2003 with frozen inboard tanks in a continental built factory winterised van. temp -5C at midday Nr Lyon {we were travelling to Spain & had water in small (2Gal) bottles inside the van.
In Austria they build wooden skirting round the van from floor to groung to restrict the wind flow underneath. They were turning up in September to claim a site for the ski season & stayed put. They addapted the hose to the Gas {propane} cylinders so that they could use the large {49 kg ?? cylinders {about 3 - 4ft high}}

Hope it helps PeteC
Author: GeorgeTelford,  PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:22 pm    Post subject:  
Regardless of whether they are double glazed or not the biggest heat loss from most vans is via windows.

The film you are talking about is bascally Cling film, this gives an extra thermal barrier, not pretty but effective nonetheless.

More info required really, are you going to be staying on hook up ?

are the Tanks internal ?

1995 roof vents include permenant ventilation (new ones dont now!) if you can seal these with gaffa Tape it will certainly cut down on a big heat loss, be careful about sealing yourself in !! Some ventilation is neccesary for your continued life (breathing is pretty important too !

Check Vehicle door seals replace the rubbers if needed.

Cab doors have air vents seal em up.

Fish tank heaters good idea if you are on hook up otherwise a non starter due to consumption, diverting some blown heat from a gas fired heater is possiblefor fresh tank, for waste tank leave open and use an outside "bucket"

Silver screen external and internal quilted definately a good idea.

Biggest Draft is usually from around the fridge, these are very often fitted incorrectly (by most major manufacturers !) have a look and seal the rear of the fridge from the interior.

[b:f24f19a4d2]Gas Change to propane, this stuff stays gaseous to very low minus figures, butane stops working at around 0 degrees and thats not what you need at all no heat and cold stopping the heater from working.[/b:f24f19a4d2]

George



[/b]
Author: Malc, 

Location: Norfolk

 PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject:  
Cling film or similar is not recommended for Poly windows, in use the film produces a crackling effect on the polycarbonate. This came about after makers of covers advised owners to cover windows with the same prior to fitting cover, after several instances of cracking effect they investigated and withdrew the advice.
Malc
Author: GeorgeTelford,  PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject:  
Hi

At no point should it touch the plastic of the window, so I cant understand what you mean it should be fitted on wall and cover the "hole" where the window sits.

This gives a trapped air insulation pocket.
Author: jabber, 

Location: West London

 PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:42 pm    Post subject:  
CAK do an American 12v heating elements that just stick to the bottom of the freshwater tank and are thermostatically operated.

Worth getting their catalogue to check it out.

I have fitted one, can't say if it works yet, for obvious reasons, but it has remained stuck on firmly for the last 11 months.

Hope this helps"

John Wink
Author: MandyandDave, 

Location: From Bedouin to Dahee

 PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:18 pm    Post subject:  
Spotted this on a RV website, a lot of what is written can be applied to our own usage.

Winterizing and storing your motorhome
After summer vacations and fall rallies, many motorhomers rest their vehicles during winter. To keep the motorhome in good working order and protect it from freezing temperatures, preparing it for storage is necessary.

Any motorhome owner can purchase the necessary materials to winterize their vehicle, according to Charles Christy, national service manager for Workhorse Custom Chassis. "If you can clean your kitchen, you can winterize your vehicle,” he said, adding that the entire winterizing process can take less than a day for one person to complete.

As a first step, Christy recommends that motorhome owners review all of their owners manuals -- the motorhome manufacturer’s, the chassis manufacturer’s and the appliances manufacturers’ -- for vehicle-specific winterizing instructions.

Water tanks
Drain and blow out water lines to prevent damage to the motorhome’s water system. The Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) suggests draining the fresh water tank by turning on the hot and cold valves and letting them run. Once the fresh water tank is empty, drain the holding tank(s).

Next, clear the lines with air pressure not exceeding 40 to 50 p.s.i. (open all faucet valves and hold the toilet valve open to allow water to clear from the regulator). Clear the lines by using blow-out plugs, which typically cost $3 to $5, along with small unit air compressors designed for tires and air mattresses. The air compressors at neighborhood service stations also will work.

As a final step, pump non-toxic antifreeze (see owners manual for proper specifications) through the entire water system to keep any remaining water from freezing. (Remember to shut off the hot water tank bypass to prevent antifreeze from filling the tank.) Never use automotive antifreeze.

To pump the antifreeze through the water system: Disconnect the water supply line from the water pump; connect a temporary supply line to the water pump and put the other end of the line in the antifreeze container; start the water pump. Once antifreeze begins to pump through the water system, close all open valves.

It's also a good idea to fill all drain traps with antifreeze. Refer to the coach owner's manual for specific instructions.

In many gas-powered motorhomes, the oil and oil filter should be changed before winter storage. This can prevent acids from accumulating in the oil and corroding the engine bearings.

Disconnect/recharge batteries
Surprisingly, batteries can freeze at temperatures as high as 32 degrees Fahrenheit, which can lead to permanent damage, Christy said. To avoid battery problems, the negative battery cable should be disconnected on vehicles that will not be driven within a 30-day period.

Even disconnected batteries can lose their charge, so they should be checked every four months and recharged as necessary. If the green dot on an AC Delco battery is not visible, then it must be recharged. To prevent overload or damage to electrical components, the ignition switch should be in the "off" position when connecting battery cables or a battery charger.

If your motorhome is equipped with an auxiliary generator, read its manual for winter storage guidelines.

Park and pay attention
When parking the motorhome for the winter, be sure the vehicle is not too close to trees, where it could be damaged by tree sap, bird droppings or falling branches. If parking in a rural area, remove high weed growth, which affects paint by attracting insects or causing stains. Park on a level surface or with the front chassis higher than the rear if a level surface is not available.

It's also a good idea to top-off the fuel tank to avoid condensation. Add a fuel stabilizer to keep the fuel from breaking down and leaving deposits. Diesel and gasoline fuel stabilizers are available at most auto-parts stores.

Clean it, close it and cover it
Before covering the motorhome, clean the interior and remove all perishable food from the cabinets and refrigerator. Turn off the refrigerator, making sure the circuits are off, and leave the refrigerator door open. Remove all clothing and bedding to prevent mildew. Close all windows, and pull the shades and close the blinds if desired.

Make sure the regulator on the propane cylinder is covered, and tape the furnace vents. Ensure that the range hood is closed, and clean the rooftop air conditioner filters. If the motorhome is stored outside, it should be covered. Opening the roof vents a little may help to reduce moisture accumulation. If not covered, rinse, wash and wipe horizontal surfaces at least once per week to remove accumulations that settle on the flat surfaces.

Exterior
Check the tires and keep them inflated to the recommended tire pressure. The sun’s ultraviolet rays can cause tires to dry rot. Tire covers are available from RV supply stores. Or, cut pieces of plywood to fit under the wheel wells and stand them against the side of each tire.

Secure all caps to prevent water, snow and dirt from entering the engine.

Make a list of the winterizing tasks and refer to it so the vehicle can be quickly prepared for the new season when warm temperatures return in the spring.

P.S The blowing out procedure mentioned can be done with an airline at your local filling station! M&D
Author: GeorgeTelford,  PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:27 pm    Post subject:  
Hi MandyandDave

I think you have mis-read the original post, the chap wants to be out and about in (possibly) sub zero temperatures, not store the van for the winter. Good post though Laughing even if slightly off-topic

George
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