Parking Motorhome on driveway and the law(Help Please)

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Author: BOOM3R PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject:  Parking Motorhome on driveway and the law(Help Please)

Hi Everyone
In our deeds it states we cannot park a caravan or boat on our driveway. Does anyone know if generally this includes motorhomes aswell??? Confused

Author: winniebagotony

Location: winsford cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject:  

This question was asked a short while ago on the forum and i think the conssensus was that there is no differance drawn between m/home or caravan they are generaly classed as one and the same

Tony

Author: b6x

Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject:  

Ours also states no caravans or boats and always took it to mean motorhomes also.

However we've just purchased a Ducato van conversion and fully intend to park it on the driveway. A guy a few doors away (and is the most likely to complain) has a large van for his plumbing business so cannot see a great deal a difference. Next door have also had a caravan for a year or so, so guess no-one will be too bothered.

Think it would really all depend on how you get on with your neighbours, how much it's going to affect them, and whether you really care. I'd happily move house if a big issue was made of it. Would rather own a motorhome than this particular house.

Author: thieawin

Location: Isle of Man

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject:  

motor caravan and caravan are not the same.

It will depend on the exact wording, and what can be extrapolated eusdem generis.

Restrictive covenants are very strictly interpreted against the imposer and enforcer. They can only get what was imposed, if they wanted motor caravans banned that wording should have been included

Evenbetter from your point of view it is so unlikely that an estae contract has been created and that your neighbour really has the right to enforce

Author: sallytrafic

Location: Salisbury

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject:  

thieawin wrote:
motor caravan and caravan are not the same.



What is your evidence for that statement? I can produce a definition from local government regulations which states they are considered the same. Note clearly when they are on a road they are different because different laws come into play but we are talking about when they are on private property.

Edit found it:

LGFA 1988: "Caravan means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, "

then follows a list of exceptions none of which concern a motorhome.

Author: sallytrafic

Location: Salisbury

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject:  

For those that think I might have made it up can I refer you to this official website which has a downloadable discussion paper including the existing definition and a proposed revision.

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If you do download it you will find that the amendments doesn't change the para I quoted earlier.

Author: thieawin

Location: Isle of Man

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject:  

Just shows how dangerous a little bit of knowledge is, this is not a local government matter. That definition is totally irrelevant to the situation outlined.

It is also why lawyers get paid so well, the thousands of barack room lawyers who, with no training and a lemming like determination that they know best, get into big messes and then eventually have to seek legal advice when its too late and sorting out has become much more expensive than going and getting correct legal advice first off.

It is a matter of civil law between landowners. It is nothing to do with the local authority

The original topic poster does not ask about interpretaion of local government law. I suspect there are no local governmemt restrictions on parking either a caravan or a motor caravan on his property.

That definition quoted is only good for certain, not all,aspects of local government law. It applies exclusively to the law relating to planning with respect to camping and caravan parks. It does not apply to any other part of local governmemnt law, and that also includes planning law for storing your vehicle on your driveway.

For the law relatiing to enforcement of restrictive covenants it is an ordinary dictionary definition, and words have their ordinary meaning. Even the interpretation act would not apply because it is not an act of parliament but a deed which is being interpreted.

"A furnished vehicle towed behind a car etc and used as a dwelling when stationary. " Note the towed bit, that is really important and is your get out.

Find a dictionary which includes motor caravan in caravan, and find me a court which will say that caravan, in those circumstances, includes motor caravan and I will eat my hat. The court will say that if it had been intended to ban motor caravans it should have stated so explicitly or there should have been something which said or vehicles of a similar character and nature, so as to extend, or caravans, motorised or otherwise.

The reason for this strictness of interpretation is that it is your land, to do with what you want, save only for what you are very clearly and specifically prohibited from doing.

As I said first post, and in the previous topic, depends exactly what your deeds contain, who is going to try and enforce, and whether they actually have the power.

This link directs you to the last time this topic came up, whereI again tried to draw the distiction, clearly not very succesfully between covenants and local governmemt
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Author: sallytrafic

Location: Salisbury

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject:  

So are you saying that if one of the landowners is the local authority they will not rely on a definition that they have, and that lawyers won't use planning laws if a covenant is unenforceable? I should also point out that this definition appears to be relied upon wherever caravans are mentioned in legislation, I refered you to a reference that was easily read.

I think what this shows is how dangerous it is to have lawyers. Smile

Author: thieawin

Location: Isle of Man

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject:  

My last foray on this topic

1. The fact that caravan is defined in lots of local governmemnt legislation strengthens my argument. It means it is not the acepted dictionary definition, nor is it the definition that generally would be attributed to caravan in either legislation or in common parlance in a deed. It is a special definition, including things not normally included. It still only applies to the legislation it is defined in, nothing else.

2. If the local authority is a neighbouring land owner it will have private rights just like anyone else, but unless it imposed the no caravans restriction it will have no better right to enforce unless it actualy was the developer or seller off of the plots/houses. That is what an examination of deeds woud do, it would help, but no one has suggested the neighbours is a local authority or it is an ex council estate. As an adjoining land owner the local authority has no more or better or different rights than any other private land owner. That includes the definition of caravan. It is the normal, not extended definition, which will apply in interpreting the deed.

3. Planning may get involved. Depends what the definition is for planning. depends where you are, what bye laws there are, eg street parking restrictions for permist in Salisbury, depends on the agr of tne deevelopment and its character. There may or may not be building line, you may or not be able to park in front of it. The chances are the planning will be silent and there will be nothing to sytop you parking a motorhome on your drive from a local authority poiint of view as long as it is temporary, ie not permanent, ie it is moved occasionally.

4. Of course I cannot rule out all sorts of sublime and ridiculous scenarios. BOOM3R may just leave it to rot, it may become infested, Environmental Health may become involved,

but the advice asked for was simple

In our deeds it states we cannot park a caravan or boat on our driveway. Does anyone know if generally this includes motorhomes aswell???

And the answer is no, it does not, but check your deeds with a lawyer and rememeber to look into planning, ie public rights as well as private, ie restrictive covenant rights, to be on safe side. You rae not just looking at the words of your deds but of the neighbours deeds, do they have enforcement rights, very rare. is the developer still in existence and does it own any land on the development still, it has to to enforce against non original purchasers, ie second and subsequent owners of any house it has built.

Author: dilly

Location: Kent

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject:  

I think if you own a panel van or even a smaller romahome and its your everyday transport how can these be classed as a caravan?
Ian.



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