Where does it say you can drive any size of vehicle on a car licence?
What is the legal definition of a car?
N.B. C1 is not a car.
If you de plate a 10 ton lorry to 7.5t you can drive it on a C1 licence,
But what about a vehicle which weighs 9 ton EMPTY, you can't derate that to less than 7.5t
Take a walk around your local bus station, have a look at the weight on the side of these vehicles. ULW 10500 KG is typical for a double decker bus or a coach. thats 10.5 ton Unladen!
Are we suggesting that if you convert that into a motorhome you can drive a 10.5 ton vehicle on a "car" licence?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject:
I think you are missing the point! A "MOTORCARAVAN" is not a "GOODS"vehicle or a PSV,HGV,LGV or what ever they are calling them these days. You can drive a double decker bus if it has been converted to a "MOTORCARAVAN" on a car licence. Stop thinking about the category the vehicle "WAS" think what category the vehicle "IS" if it has been converted to "MOTORCARAVAN" that is what it "IS".
I will give you a "FACT" If you went and bought a brand new HGV/LGV tractor unit and run it on trade plates,without the fifth wheel coupling fitted, you could drive this on a car licence. Why, because it is not registered as a goods vehicle and there is no feasible way you could carry goods on or in it
I know it is confusing, but you have to relate to what the vehicle "IS"not what it "WAS"
Author: GeorgeTelford, Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject:
Absolutely spot on.
Jonathon according to your version a minibus over 7.5 tonnes cannot be driven, but the law disagree's and the local traffic police dept have just confirmed weight not an issue minibus any weight can be driven on car licence. ring you local nick the police have a traffic law chappy on 24/7 to answer patrols queries.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject:
I agree that a motor home or caravan is not a HGV LGV or PCV I never said it was!
A car licence category B has a weight restriction of 3.5t and always has done. There are a list of exceptions to this stated in legislation, motorhomes are not covered by those exceptions.
Re D1 that is the DVLA's interpretation of the law, which you have already stated cannot be relied upon, the police go by what the DVLA say.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject:
[quote:627c73f0ab]I will give you a "FACT" If you went and bought a brand new HGV/LGV tractor unit and run it on trade plates,without the fifth wheel coupling fitted, you could drive this on a car licence. Why, because it is not registered as a goods vehicle and there is no feasible way you could carry goods on or in it.
I think you will find that a chassis cab or tractor unit has a MAM of less than 7.5t so can be driven on a C1 licence.
It may be over 3.5t so a B category licence holder may not be able to drive it.
A car licence is category B !!!!!!
[quote:627c73f0ab]weight not an issue minibus any weight can be driven on car licence[/quote:627c73f0ab]
Not on a B licence, which is the legal definition of a car licence. you are limited to 4.25t
Author: GeorgeTelford, Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject:
a Motorhome is now a car ? BTW follow this through and you will see why I am totally not interested in the car size issue
so no motorhome can be over 3.5 tonnes?
Or is it a C when you feel like it and limited to 7.5 Tonnes ?
But then what about the over 7.5 Tonne American motorhomes, what licence do you need to drive them ?
An HGV you may say but then if its HGV as yourself and the DVLA mistakenly believe it is (but the law disagree's)
The following are totally at odds with it being HGV
1. needs a tachograph because its now HGV (according to DVLA) and I have checked this it is not on the exempted from tacho's list.
2. it should not be driven in 3rd lane of motorway, yet they can be, ask your local cop shop, the only court case they gave up
3. it would need fitting with a speed limiter to 56 MPH max
4. it would Need HGV plating (MOT)
there is more, but have a chew on that for now.
The DVLA cannot explain the above away, can you? and please quote the Legislation that says it wrong.
BTW as I say VOSA, THe Ministry of Transport, construction and Use and te legislation all agree on the above. DVLA are the only ones who think differently, but strangely cannot produce any law to back there case. CPS eventually gave up on the only case that ever nearly got heard in court.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:17 pm Post subject:
A car licence allows the driver to drive a vehicle upto 3.5t end of story.
I don't need to prove that a large motorhome is an HGV LGV PCV or any other vehicle.
If it wieghts more than 3.5t its not a car, therefor cannot be driven on a car licence. It is not covered by the exceptions listed in the legislation.
As for tachographs, I can drive a HGV or PCV (less than 10 seats) for social purposes without a tachograph.
A private HGV does not require a tachograph under the regs.
Speed limiters relate to the age of the vehicle, or the date of it's first use. It would be upto VOSA to decide if a speed limiter is required.
The MOT class has no bearing on the driving licence category.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject:
A car licence category B has a weight restriction of 3.5t and always has done. There are a list of exceptions to this stated in legislation, motorhomes are not covered by those exceptions.[/quote:868730a1f7]
If you can find anything regarding Motorcaravans on your licence or on the DVLA site your a good un! Look at the VOSA site, MOTORCARAVANS are classed as class 4 MOT. You are still not looking at this situation as "MOTORCARAVAN", ignore all other definitions. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, I'm off, I've a bus to catch.
Ps, check the wording= Motorcaravan, nothing else will do.
Author: GeorgeTelford, Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject:
re Speed limiters VOSA have already decided a Motorhome is NOT an HGV if it were it would require a speed limiter.
end of story ? Obviously not a car licence as you put it is not the end, I have only ever passed the car test, but my licence entitles me to drive even by your and the DVLA's admission 7.5 tonnes. but with the minbus it can be any weight at all (allowing for axle legal max's)
Private HGV is defined as an HGV for private purposes but a motorhome does not fit the definition of HGV according to the Goverment dept that the Legislation says decides ! ergo a Motorhome cannot be an HGV private or otherwise.
Not as easy or cut and dried as you think, if DVLA cannot show the legislation, they keep repeating the same things which the law does nt agree with.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject:
If you passed you car test after 1997 you will not automatically be granted a C1 and D1 licence.
If you were lucky enough to sit your test before 1997 well done, they've got wise to that one
Back to the OP, take a look at the EU integration of drivers licence proposals, they state that C1 and D1 are comparable vehicles and are proposing issuing C1 and D1 together when sitting either test.
As I said the D1 licence was meant to be upto 7.5t, DVLA seem to have lost the plot