Resons why councils discourage motorhomers. Forums

Drifter

I work in the tourist industry and on my travels I had an informal discussion on the issue of motorhomes recently with the tourist development officer for a public body. There is a deliberate policy to discouraging motorhomes in some towns and specific tourist attractions. Here is a summary of the points involved :

Fire : A motorhome in a municipal car park is a fire risk and the authority has a statutory obligation of fire protection.

Insurance : There is an issue of public liability and insurance premiums of the local authority can increase where overnighting is allowed in car parks.

Trade : The council is tasked to encourage tourism to local B&B and hotel accommodation and motorhomes detract from this initiative.

Trespass : Public parking and land open 24hrs a day attracts travellers who wish to establish permanent residency on council property and eviction is often a lengthy and costly process.

Antisocial behaviour : Many municipal car parks attracts gangs of youths at night particularly those involved car trailing. Locking car parks overnight discourages this type activity.

Crime : Car parks are covered by town security and CCTV operations. It is prohibitively costly to maintain such service overnight and valuable vehicles parked overnight encourages crime.

Licensing : Local authorities have licensing and planning control over dedicated caravan parks and in this way can maintain high standards of accommodation and provision. This is not possible in cases of municipal overnighting of motorhomes.

Refuse disposal : A motorhomer does not contribute to the local income in the form of local taxation but requires refuse disposal facilities for which the local authority incurs a cost.

Public conveniences : Regardless of the issue of vandalism, conveniences situated in municipal parking areas are closed overnight to discourage undesirable sexual activity.

Any comments ?

Drifter

Anonymous

It's interesting to hear the council's views, thank for posting that. This is what we initially thought about each point...

Personally we have no great desire to park in public car parks, for most of the reasons below plus the fact the view isn't great.

Fire: Technically true, but we fell that the chances of a cataclysmic fire starting on, and spreading from, a motorhome in a car park is pretty low!

Insurance : Simple economic decision for the council as we see it: Is it possible that the extra local business bought by motorhomers outweigh the insurance premium?

Trade : Motorhomes ARE tourists! Also, motorhomers probably won't stay in the B&Bs anyway.

Trespass : Agreed that travellers (motorhomers without morals?) are not a good thing, and we wouldn't want to be confused with them.

Antisocial behaviour : Firstly who would want to stay in such a car park? Secondly, is being locked in really that much of problem?

Crime : Again, why park in nasty car parks?

Licensing : If you want to park for free, there are lots of ways but you have to look for them and take your own risks. Otherwise, you pay through the nose for a club site. We often opt for the middle ground offered by a certified site, preferably costing under £5.

Refuse disposal : We tend to keep our rubbish until we can empty at a site. On the rare occasion we empty somewhere else, we're probably spending money there at the same time (like Tescos)

Public conveniences : If don't have an onboard loo, then the already unattractive proposition of parking in a public car park is even more dismal.

In general fair points from the council, if you find a car park then take your chances if you think the risks are worth the small saving when compared with a comparable minimal facilities site.

There are plenty of better options for wild camping. We tend to spend 2-4 nights a week wild camping, and the rest of the time spending about £20 a week on site fees.

Boff

Hi Drifter,

are these points you list up really brought up by council officials? I have the impression that some of them (Fire, Insurance) are mere excuses, while others like "refuse disposal" could be covered by charging an adequate fee for the stopover.

When I look to my former home country Germany there we have the following situation:

With the exception of the northernmost province Schleswig-Holstein (they have a special "nature protection"*) law in place banning the use of all kind of "mobile abodes" outside of official sites) overnight parking is basically "not forbidden". Means that you can stopover for one night unless local parking restrictions are violated.

While now most councils and other local authorities tolerate (or just ignore) motorhome stopovers, there is an increasing number actively encouraging it by providing motorhome sites and/or sanitary stations.

On the other hand there is a small (but also increasing Sad

) minority of councils actively discouraging motorhomers. Asked for their reasons they normally present a lot of gibberish about motorhomers leaving no money (a statement which has just recently been proven wrong by an independent study) etc. When you dig deeper this normally boils down to two reasons:

1. Local camp site owners fearing for their revenues.
2. Local residents complaining about inconveniences caused by motorhomers.

Number 1 may be true but is not really relevant here, as discouraged motorhomers normally just go somewhere else, but not on the local camp site.

Number 2 on the other hand most frequently is related to nuisances from garbage, toilet wastes, power generator noise and barbecue fumes. And I am afraid I must say that there are some rotten apples among us fellow motorhomers who give reason to such complaints.

Best Regards,
Gerhard

*) Can somebody tell me what kind of "nature" can be protected on tarmac car parks??? Confused

Drifter

Don't shoot the messenger !

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Gerhard

In the UK there is 'public liability' issue with insurance. If you have an accident on the land, the owner can be sued, hence the common signage 'at own risk'. This excuse of insurance in my view is not valid for motorhomers, who's vehicle must already be legally insured. This is not the case for caravans.

There are also 'national parks' in the UK like Schleswig-Holstein and in these areas there is special legislation for environmental protection. Often the local council has obligations under these rules. Again, this excuse in my view is silly, because unlike static caravans which can be a blot on the landscape and holiday homes causing community issues with house price inflation, there is no permanent footprint from motorhomers.

In the UK the fire service is under the control of the local council.

[quote:201916a05a]
While now most councils and other local authorities tolerate (or just ignore) motorhome stopovers, there is an increasing number actively encouraging it by providing motorhome sites and/or sanitary stations.
[/quote:201916a05a]

Oh ! How lucky you are one the mainland of Europe.
If only it were the same in the UK !

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BenandLizzie

I don't agree with you about not wanting to overnight in public car parks. Whereas some can be pretty awful, the UK is full of very nice and attractive market towns with wonderful views and scenery. Often the public car park in these towns are off limits to motorhomes which is a real shame.

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Drifter

andyangyh

Interesting isn't it, that the UK councils are so worried about fire, insurance risks, travellers, rabies, witchcraft (forget those last two - they haven't mentioned them yet!). I live in France, spend most weekends camping on Aires and we have NEVER seen any "travellers" camping on them. Mainly because the members of the "travelling community" in France tend to drive white vans with caravans behind them and stick to their own (often legally provided) campsites. Most Communes (the equivalent to our local councils) welcome motorhomers and are sensible enough to realise that anyone who has paid upwards of £30000 for their vehicle is going to have some disposable income to spend in their town and is unlikely to be some sort of vandal. They are also not potential customers for hotels - although they may well eat in the attached restaurant or drink in the bar.

They also don't seem to have the vandalism problem that bedevils the UK. Likewise, I presume they think that the best way to make a deserted area unattractive to joyriders etc is to populate it - with motorhomes.

If they have any sense they also will have worked out that a motorhome contains its own sanitary facilities - thus making the provision of toilets un-necessary. As for the bit about having to close toilets at night because of unwelcome sexual activity - the remarks above concerning joy-riders apply. Those that seek out quiet places are unlikely to use somewhere overlooked by a collection of vans (especially as one of them might just contain the police).

French friends are baffled by this attitude on the part of the British. We also stayed on a France Passion site (a vineyard where they produce excellent cognac) and the owner was amazed that Britain doesn't have a similar scheme. "But it brings in so many people! Do they not want to make money?" He was happy to provide somewhere flat, secure and picturesque for an overnight stay content in the knowledge that probably one in two of his guests would buy something from his vineyard and distillery.

What a strange country Britain has become!

autostratus · Moderator

Hi Andy and welcome. Hope you enjoy it here.

As a lover of and a frequent traveller to France I envy you and wish that we had taken the plunge to live there when we first thought of it 25 years ago. Unfortunately it's now too late and we have to make do with our 3 or 4 months a year. Most of our stopovers are on aires or France Passion premises. Most are great but the occasional one Sad

.

If I can be cheeky, what area do you live in?

We visit the Dordogne a lot as we have a mobile home there which is let for the high season. It's sited about 16km NNE of Nontron.

banjo

I work for a county council highway authority and we don't have responsibility for parking - that lies with the district councils - and I can only comment on my own informal discussions with those responsible for parking.

Many officers are totally ignorant of the MH issue - they see them as something else they have to 'manage' along with coaches and HGV's - a bit of a pain, so some officers may well use any number of excuses to avoid having to tackle the issue.

I have tried to open up a sensible dialogue with those officers and have received some good support, in fact, there are likely to be some significant developments in Chester in the near future (not because of me but I did help to speed things up a bit). I honestly believe that it is only a matter of time before better facilities are included in any redevelopment of parking areas. In the meantime, getting through to those who will not see the light is a difficult job!!!

banjo Cool

andy

[quote:a7ee002185]there are likely to be some significant developments in Chester in the near future[/quote:a7ee002185]

that's good news

something needs to be done and I think that more and more pressure will come to bear as more and more people get into motorhoming (like me)

MOTORHOMER

Hi

I think the poster above who says France provides legally licensed sites for the travellers all over France says it all. They dont have the problems we have in England with these folk because they have somewhere to go all over france unlike in this country where the places for them provided legally either does not exist or they are totally few and far between.

Motorhomer.