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At what weight does a Motorhome change to an Rv or does something else dictate this?
What is the maximum speed of an Rv is it 60mph or 70mph?
As a van or call it what you like up to 7.5 ton can do 70mph what is max for Motorhome of say 8ton?
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answer re speeed limits: it depends on which side of this debate you take. if an rv/mh (same thing, one us, other eur) is an lgv, then limited to 40 single carriagway, 50 dual, 60 m/way. otherwise (as per attempted prosecution) same as a car. take your pick!
______________________________________________________________ "Grab half a chance, and you´ll never regret a might have been" Arthur Ransome
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Okay, I said I'd try to answer eddievanbitz' questions – I’ve done a bit of checking and will deal with the questions in the order they are in the email.
Quote:
“So, if this is the case, why can't I take my test in my camper?”
Your RV obviously does not meet the minimum test vehicle requirements -
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- for minimum requirements, and please note they changed Oct 2003.
Quote:
“Also, why has the CPS chickened out regarding prosecution”
What prosecution are you alluding to? (I have nothing to do with the CPS, we do our own prosecutions.) Yes I’m well aware of the stories that unless the CPS can guarantee winning a case which has had a ‘Not Guilty’ plea entered, there is a good chance it will get dropped pleading ‘lack of evidence’, but it could also be because someone has screwed up and some part of the evidence is classed as ineligible, or even that it's just not in the public interest to proceed with the case.
Quote:
“Could it be that the licensing bods and the engineers at the transport department can't quiet see "eye to eye" over the "Construction and use"
In my job as an ‘enforcement’ officer on the legal side of the job, I work quite closely with engineers, in fact I’m also a mechanic (a fitter from the days before they became ‘fitters of new parts’). We generally agree on whether something is in order or not. Can’t speak for DVLA or the Police. C & U (or to give it the correct title ‘The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986) is not the be-all and end-all of the legislation used (don’t forget the Transport Act, the Road Traffic Act, to mention just two of the more important ones, I have six volumes at least 4 inches thick of legislation to which I have to work), C & U covers the various aspects of legislation in respect to the requirements relating to, among others, roadworthiness/dimensions of vehicles used on a public road in the UK.
Quote:
“what test I can take, in an LHD automatic RV with conventional brakes, not air over hydraulic?”
As I said right at the start it looks as if your RV does not meet the minimum test vehicle requirements.
Quote:
“our local DFT office and commercial test center told me that they would not MOT my last motorhome as it wasn't a HGV and it only needed a Class four MOT and to take it to a normal garage!”
By DFT office and commercial test centre, I take it you mean your local VOSA Testing Station – how big is your RV – if it’s the same size as a UK type coach, then they would not refuse you as VOSA have the only testing stations able to test that size of vehicle. However, if your vehicle is of the ‘smaller’ RV type, similar to Hymers/Dethleffs etc then there are a lot of Class IV testing stations with either a pit or a large hydraulic lift (usually a six post lift) which are capable of testing your vehicle. If you are absolutely set on having your vehicle tested by VOSA – (and I think a Mini Winnie is about 29 feet long?) then you should have a word with the Station Manager and ask why they won’t test it. Due to the length of your vehicle, if there is nowhere local which can handle that size of vehicle, they should not be able to refuse. But be nice when you’re talking to them, don’t demand, ask nicely.
Quote:
“as I say the DFT don't think I need any special licence, and they would be classified as the "experts" in any litigation”
Provided your vehicle is below 7.5 tonnes and you passed your driving test before 1 Jan 1997, then, no, you don’t need a special licence.
Final point, it’s not a goods vehicle, it’s a motor caravan (or, as it’s of American origin and if we’re being pedantic a Recreational Vehicle), a Class IV test is a car test, the same items are checked for compliance on a motor caravan as on a car – it’s just bigger, and, most motor caravans in the UK are built on a light commercial vehicle chassis of 3,500 kg GVW, well within the capabilities of most MOT testing stations.
Hope this has been of some help
Keith
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______________________________________________________________ John & Irina (Road Runner)
Sellers Wakeechee 34ft with Ford 460
(2 Great Danes) Bruno & Amy
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Thanks for the amount of work that you have done on this for all of us. You have to be fair though and agree that the link that you are quoting is liberally laced with "medium goods vehicle" large goods vehicles" lorry" "closed box cargo compartment" plus many more references to commercial goods vehicles used for hire and reward.
Also, miminum requirements a medium sized lorry! all vehicles must be presented unladend, so if I take all of the furniture (persumably "goods" out of my van I no longer weigh too much! Result!
The prosecution that was dropped was an employee of Travelworld in Telford who have been importing yanks for some thirty years. An employee was stopped in the outside lank in a 15 odd ton yank towing a car. Travelworld still dine out on it I remember it and waiting for the outcome. The exact dates an whatnot are in the George Telford link (where is he when you need him!) George, bless him tracked down all of the information and posted it in that link. Given the contradictions that are rife through all of this you can understand someone not wanting to stand before a court and try to explain all of the ambiguity!
"So, is it a car"
" No sir"
"Is it a lorry?"
"No Sir"
"does it have to have a MOT"
" Yes sir, a car MOT"
"can you carry goods in it?
" No sir, it has a bed and a toilet and a shower"
"So the accused, didn't take the appropriate test?"
"Yes sir" Felling brighter
"Did he try"
"Yes sir"
"what happened?
" The DFT turned him away as it isn't a lorry, but they offered to do a car MOT on it for him"
"NEXT"
I am not suggesting that there should be a test for each type of vehicle, just that the DOT do not see that a motorhome is the same as a goods vehicle, they never have and hopefully never will. If They did they would insist on a Class 7 MOT and they would want driver hours logged and check via a tacograph.
If I am wrong I will be the first to apologize and I will rush out and book my test, however, in the absence of anything other than a recent re awakening and re-interpretation of the law by the DVLA (Blaming Europe!)(The spanish still kill bulls, Europe hasn't stopped them) I have seen nothing from the DOT or the Courts to suggest that I am wrong. Travelworld have been importing RV's for 30 years, George Dudley started importing Winnebago's into the UK some 40 years ago how come there has never been a single prosecution for driving a large motorhome (call it RV if you like) with a car licence?
The erosion of peoples liberties and freedoms is something that I think we should all question, whether it is the right to drive our motorhomes, park on common ground have a street party or carnival without a health and safety missive and crippling public liability insurance and the threat of closure by modern day safety nazi's.
The fear of arguing or standing out and questioning things scares me that we are closer to an Orwellian society than I dare think
Most people in this country are sick and tired of being watched checked questioned, fleeced and browbeaten. If we want to fight back we need to say "this is stupid" this is wrong" No I don't accept it because you say so" (Not you Keith) Ask questions, challenge ambiguity say no thank you.
In short, I believe that common sense dictates that you should not be able to pass a test and drive something huge, yet the idiots in Westminster allow a 17 year old pass his test and, if he has enough money can by a 180 MPH car! Stupid in the extreme.
If I am forced to take a test to drive my RV, how difficult wold it be to have a simple competence test? where a qualified examiner sits with you and drives around for 30/40 minutes. If the examiner feels comfortable with you, you pass, to drive a private motorhome if you scare the examiner, you fail and have to take it again. I would pay for that happily because it would be relevant to what I drive.
Thanks for the amount of work that you have done on this for all of us. You have to be fair though and agree that the link that you are quoting is liberally laced with "medium goods vehicle" large goods vehicles" lorry" "closed box cargo compartment" plus many more references to commercial goods vehicles used for hire and reward.
Also, miminum requirements a medium sized lorry! all vehicles must be presented unladend, so if I take all of the furniture (persumably "goods" out of my van I no longer weigh too much! Result!
The prosecution that was dropped was an employee of Travelworld in Telford who have been importing yanks for some thirty years. An employee was stopped in the outside lank in a 15 odd ton yank towing a car. Travelworld still dine out on it I remember it and waiting for the outcome. The exact dates an whatnot are in the George Telford link (where is he when you need him!) George, bless him tracked down all of the information and posted it in that link. Given the contradictions that are rife through all of this you can understand someone not wanting to stand before a court and try to explain all of the ambiguity!
"So, is it a car"
" No sir"
"Is it a lorry?"
"No Sir"
"does it have to have a MOT"
" Yes sir, a car MOT"
"can you carry goods in it?
" No sir, it has a bed and a toilet and a shower"
"So the accused, didn't take the appropriate test?"
"Yes sir" Felling brighter
"Did he try"
"Yes sir"
"what happened?
" The DFT turned him away as it isn't a lorry, but they offered to do a car MOT on it for him"
"NEXT"
I am not suggesting that there should be a test for each type of vehicle, just that the DOT do not see that a motorhome is the same as a goods vehicle, they never have and hopefully never will. If They did they would insist on a Class 7 MOT and they would want driver hours logged and check via a tacograph.
If I am wrong I will be the first to apologize and I will rush out and book my test, however, in the absence of anything other than a recent re awakening and re-interpretation of the law by the DVLA (Blaming Europe!)(The spanish still kill bulls, Europe hasn't stopped them) I have seen nothing from the DOT or the Courts to suggest that I am wrong. Travelworld have been importing RV's for 30 years, George Dudley started importing Winnebago's into the UK some 40 years ago how come there has never been a single prosecution for driving a large motorhome (call it RV if you like) with a car licence?
The erosion of peoples liberties and freedoms is something that I think we should all question, whether it is the right to drive our motorhomes, park on common ground have a street party or carnival without a health and safety missive and crippling public liability insurance and the threat of closure by modern day safety nazi's.
The fear of arguing or standing out and questioning things scares me that we are closer to an Orwellian society than I dare think
Most people in this country are sick and tired of being watched checked questioned, fleeced and browbeaten. If we want to fight back we need to say "this is stupid" this is wrong" No I don't accept it because you say so" (Not you Keith) Ask questions, challenge ambiguity say no thank you.
In short, I believe that common sense dictates that you should not be able to pass a test and drive something huge, yet the idiots in Westminster allow a 17 year old pass his test and, if he has enough money can by a 180 MPH car! Stupid in the extreme.
If I am forced to take a test to drive my RV, how difficult wold it be to have a simple competence test? where a qualified examiner sits with you and drives around for 30/40 minutes. If the examiner feels comfortable with you, you pass, to drive a private motorhome if you scare the examiner, you fail and have to take it again. I would pay for that happily because it would be relevant to what I drive.
I am off to Shepton Mallet now
Bye
Great posting and how true
______________________________________________________________ John & Irina (Road Runner)
Sellers Wakeechee 34ft with Ford 460
(2 Great Danes) Bruno & Amy
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Like the rest of you, I've been following this thread with interest. Luckily, I don't have the headache regarding the size of my van or type of licence. Nevertheless, I value the contributions by many of you and I think Keith's input is particularly worthwhile as some insight from the other side of the fence.
Mind you, one thing Keith says concerns me a littlle and I quote, "C & U (or to give it the correct title ‘The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986) is not the be-all and end-all of the legislation used (don’t forget the Transport Act, the Road Traffic Act, to mention just two of the more important ones, I have six volumes at least 4 inches thick of legislation to which I have to work), C & U covers the various aspects of legislation in respect to the requirements relating to, among others, roadworthiness/dimensions of vehicles used on a public road in the UK."
Now that is very interesting! However, your average motorists does not have these tomes, nor the legal training and back up necessary to defend himself against the use of them. What are we to do, buy copies and drive around with them in case we get stopped? "Sorry, officer, won't be a minute, just saw it here the other day on page 354, chapter 17. Oh! Sorry. Wrong book. Can I phone a friend?"
In fact, he/she probably does not even know of their existence. I bet many have never even heard of the VOSA until they have a reason to know, other than seeing it on their MOT.
We all know that ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law, but surely there must be a sense of fairness in order for any law to be successful. It could be said that it you can't enforce a law then it's a waste of time having it, but here is a law that has "enforcement officers" backed by police and anything else they require. Isn't it a pity that the government couldn't apply the same tenacity, dilligence and care for other aspects of our lives, like say, law and order, NHS, people not ending up with malnutrition or MRSA in our hospitals. How about enforcement officers to make sure the patients get fed? Hmm.
Anyway, as I said Keith, kidding aside, I do value your input immensely in this as the manufacturers and dealers are not a lot of help. And as has been said before, too many opinions not enough facts.
Willie
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