gear box problems on Fiat Forums

thesnail

I understand there are problems with the fith gear on the Fiat ducato especialy pre Sept 2001.

I have read an article in 3M's suggesting putting Slick 50 in the box to combat lack of oil during start up.

Any comments or advice please Exclamation

bryan

peejay

Bryan,

I've heard of these problems as well and, owning a fiat based m/home as well I think that they are (hopefully) relatively isolated cases, I certainly haven't had a problem with mine (everything crossed!) though i'm sure others will be able to give more info on the subject.

pete

EOR

Apparently their failure is due to there not being any direct lubrication to the fifth gear arrangement. Its lubrication relies on oil being splashed on to it. Most people recommend not using fifth gear for a number of miles, or at least until the engine is up to temperature, which is a guide to the gearbox temperature.

There has been a lot of development in the lubrication market over the years. Most people are aware of products like STP and Slick 50. However there is a new range of products available which are highly efficient friction and wear reducers, all the ones I’ve come across have all been synthetic products. According to the sales reps, this new stuff consists of microscopic magnetic sepheres which cling to all the ferrous materials its in contact with. The demonstrations I have seen have been very impressive. I even tried some in an old Merc truck I had, the result certainly was better acceleration and I could go a lot further up long hills before needing to change down. I never kept figures for fuel consumption to know if that was effected. The demonstrations I saw was based on applying a load to a shaft until it stalled the drive. The test commenced with dry metal against dry metal which didn’t take much load to stop the shaft, the following tests were a combination of liquids to test their slippyness, then try again after being wiped clean. The marvellous thing about the modern friction reducers was that although the friction components had been wiped clean of the friction reducer, it retained its slippyness almost as good as some of the cheapo oils.

What’s this all about? Well by using a good quality synthetic oil in your gearboxes and engines will extend their life, but with an equally good additive/friction reducer with be an added benefit for the longevity of your machinery.

One of the products I used was marketed by PPX Industrial Fluids (dug a container out of my workshop), however I believe they have gone through some name changes and now part of the Petron Plus product range. I’ll have to check with my transmission supplier what the current ‘hot’ product is in the ‘friction reducer’ market place.
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[b:685 ae49aa8]Steve
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Anonymous

I too have seen the friction test that Steve wrote about , and I was very impressed, I also have a Fiat based vehicle and therefore very interested in the product. My problem is that being of the old school I have a natural sceptism to anything thats new especialy if the claims are so good, after all there's nearly a grand of my hard earned cash down the pan if I use it and blow the box, I would probably feel a lot happier if Fiat recomended it.

My fears are probably ungrounded, but it reminds me when back in the fifty's some chaps at work mixed Molybdenum disulphide with their engine oil to prolong engine life and ended up with block crankshaft oilways and melted bigend / main shells, they learned their lesson the hard way.

Ken S.

Anonymous

Sorry forgot to add that Molybdenum disulphide is similar to the ingredient in Molyslip (graphite based)

Ken S.

nukeadmin · Site Admin

[quote:dd89eb0883]problems with the fith gear on the Fiat ducato especialy pre Sept 2001. [/quote:dd89eb0883]

hmmm now dont get me worried about my 2003 Fiat Euramobil Wink

so is there anything i should be doing to prolong the engine life on my MH or is mine unaffected due to its age ??

Boff

[quote:a26b70f19b="nukeadmin"]hmmm now dont get me worried about my 2003 Fiat Euramobil Wink

so is there anything i should be doing to prolong the engine life on my MH or is mine unaffected due to its age ??[/quote:a26b70f19b]

There has been pretty much discussion about this "5th-gear-problem" in German MH forums: According to information from there all "face-lifted" Ducatos (2002 and younger) are safe.

In the older Ducatos Fiat supposedly "added" a 5th gear to a gearbox designed for 4 gears. This caused lubrication problems on the 5th.

MH owners in Germany try to overcome this problem by regularily checking the oil level in the gearbox, using only top-quality lubricants and sometimes also overfilling it slightly.

I did not yet start such practises because my MH is still under warranty.

Best Regards,
Gerhard

hbib

Hello all, there´s a good document about the problem with the 5th gear on Fiat in:

peejay

Blimey, what I mentioned as isolated cases is obviously more widespread than I thought, little bit worried now as we're about to p/x the van in may, hope it doesn't fail before then.

pete

Anonymous

As previously mentioned this supposed problem has been well documented in various mags and forums, I was well aware of the discussions when I bought my 98 Kontiki but decided to go ahead on the basis that the number of commercial Fiat vehicles and ambulances far outweigh the number of M/Hs on the road and if they had problems the fleet owners would not buy them, I tend to think things get blown up out of all proportions. (at one time Rover boxes got a bad name, but I only know of one person that had a problem)

It is said that if the vehicles are used on a regular basis (as with commercial/ambulances) and not left in the driveway the add-on fifth gear box gets and remains lubricated and problems seldom if ever get reported, my M/H is my every day vehicle.

I understand that Fiat refuses to recognised that there is a problem with the box, I would have thought that with all their expertise they would know if there was a fault or not, surely it would not be in their interest to refuse to accept it if there was an inherent fault (I would like to think this to be the case).

Ken S.