V5C and MOT Forums

sallytrafic · Southern Rally Co-ordinator

My V5C is two weeks old with an amendment date for the form of 5/06 and has the following relevant info:

D.3 Body Type MOTOR CARAVAN
X Taxation Class PRIVATE/LIGHT GOODS PLG
Y Revenue Weight 3015 KG GROSS

The reason that I have a new V5 is that my converters registered it as a panel van. I requested a new one and queried whether as a Motor Caravan the Revenue weight was a valid statement. They didn't answer just issued a new one as discribed. My MAM is 3015kG.

My reasons for continuing to query this is that the person who had one of the first Trafic high tops and had it converted has just had it through its first MOT.

this is what he said to me:

"Our van is now 3 years old and needed its first MOT yesterday. Our not so local Renault garage could not accommodate our vehicle on their MOT ramp due to the height of the van. I was however able to book it into an independent MOT examiner. Upon arrival at the testing station I was turned away because they are only registered for class 4 vehicles. This means they can only take vehicles up to a maximum of 3000 Kg Gross revenue weight. Our Renault's are 3015 Kg which puts them into the class 7 category. I was fortunate to be able to find a class 7 testing station with a spare slot yesterday afternoon. It passed without any problem."

Now I know that this is a nonsense but wanted to get it sorted now not when trying to get it MOT'd in a year or so. Perhaps Geo could comment?

Regards frank

Don Madge

This an article from www.ukmotorhomes.net

MOTs for motorhomes
There is sometimes confusion, even within the MOT trade, over the type of MOT test that motorhomes are subject to. Motorhomes are registered with the body type 'motor caravan', in the past this description was applied quite loosely but recently the DVLA and VOSA have been more rigid in aplying the regulations. In fact anyone registering a change of vehicle type after carrying out a conversion, or registering an imported motorhome, is likely to be required to have the vehicle checked at a VOSA Testing Station before DVLA will issue a new registration document.

We asked VOSA about the regulations that apply to motorhomes, as far as the MOT test is concerned. This is their reply:

"A 'motor caravan' is "a motor vehicle (not being a living van) which is
constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and
which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which
are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living
accommodation for its users". Motor caravans are not classed as goods
vehicles for MOT test purposes and are therefore in class IV or V depending
on their seating capacity but regardless of their size or weight.

A 'living van' is "a vehicle, whether mechanically propelled or not, which
is used for living accommodation by one or more persons and which is also
used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one
or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle". 'Living
vans' are classed as goods vehicles and, depending on their weight, are
therefore in either class IV or VII within the MOT test scheme or are
subject to HGV plating and testing.

A 'living van' up to 3000kg dgw (Design Gross Weight) would require a class IV
test, and the first MOT would be due on the third anniversary of first
registration.

'Living vans' over 3000kg and up to 3500kg dgw require a class
VII test and would require an MOT when the vehicle is 1 year old.

If the 'living van' is over this weight then it would be a HGV MOT test that the
vehicle would require and this also would be due when the vehicle is 1 year
old. "

We are currently in discussion with VOSA, over their definition of 'living van' and the phrase:
"... used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle."

When we asked about carrying a small car or motor cycle in a motorhome we had this reply:

"A small car or motorcycle would be classed as goods as it is not needed by
such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence. When it
states "for the purpose of their residence" it refers more to things that
are necessary for the vehicle to be lived in, e.g, cooker, refridgerator,
beds, etc."

So currently it seems that a motorhome adapted to carry a motorbike or scooter could be classed as a 'living van'. If so it would be regarded as a goods vehicle and, if over 3000kg GVW, be subject to a Class VII MOT test EVERY YEAR FROM NEW. If over 3500kg GVW it would be subject to a HGV MOT test EVERY YEAR FROM NEW.

We regard this as patently ridiculous and are in continuing discussion with VOSA. In particular we have asked where the line is drawn between possessions that may be carried for this purpose, and those that VOSA deems to be 'goods'. One assumes that a motorhome owner may carry some personal possessions 'for the purpose of their residence', eg clothes and food!

Watch this space

sallytrafic · Southern Rally Co-ordinator

WOW what a mess!

look like they treated my friends van as a living van.

Its just as much a motor caravan as mine is and in a converted panel van what goods could I transport?

Regards Frank

Geo

Well Frank as always the MOT tester will be the very last to find out about new (if thats what they are) rules, up until reading Dons post (i have not looked at his link yet) I would have said your vehicle was a class 4 test, I will contact Vosa To morrow, to try and clarify, We as Testers Talk to a different section of VOSA than do the general public i think, so hopefully my answer should be just as confusing if not more so, Rolling Eyes

Geo
EDIT---Having considered the context of the article IMO these new descriptions are more than likely aimed at race support vehicles rather than Motor homes as we know them, The rather confusing title of Living Van has been allocated to this type of vehicle and can only add to the confusion,
unless there is now an attempt to regulate MH,s more strictly (and this may be the case) the status quo should remain and "Proper"M/h's will remain class 4, lets wait and see !!!

sallytrafic · Southern Rally Co-ordinator

Thanks Don and Geo (thanks for pm as well) In the meantime I think I will write to DVLA enclosing my V5 and ask about the inclusion of the revenue weight which seems to erroneously trigger the class 7 MOT.

Regards Frank

Geo

Well we live and learn as they say, it would appear your friends van was correctly treated as a living van,if indeed it has the space to carry a load,
it would seem after talking to VOSA that the interpretaion of these regs are open to debate, its seems these are not new rules , just overlooked rules for want of a better description, and they were it appears written to control converted pannel vans and buses as i hinted at in my previous post
and unfortunately due to "normal" MHs now being made with bigger payloads and under bed garages at the rear, more and more are going to fall into the Living Van category, ie over 3000 GVDW and capable of carrying goods, and yes your Motorbike is goods.
Vosa will have to clear this situation up, I fear they will make all Mhs class 7 this being the easy way out
Geo

sallytrafic · Southern Rally Co-ordinator

sallytrafic · Southern Rally Co-ordinator

In connection with all the above I have sent the following letter to DVLA. Click on the attachment to read at full size.

Regards Frank