Gas Attacks (with poll added!) Forums

GeorgeTelford · Account Deactivated

Hi Roi

Sorry you feel that way, I asked a Recent Ex SAS, maybe they stopped using it because it was totally useless and dangerous?

Can you give me a clue to any operation and in which theater of operations was used in?

Geo

spykal · Moderator

Hi all

It seems there is a gas that would have the effects described but it may also kill the victims, as happened in Russia recently during a hostage situation. The gas is based on the chemical etorphine which is also used in the darts that vets use to incapacitate wild animals.

Taken from a web news article:

[i:3c58bc6340]We all have seen Africa wildlife documentaries, such as on the Discovery Channel, showing researchers immobilizing and capturing big animals such as elephants, giraffes, rhinos and hippos by "darting" them – firing a hypodermic needle into them with a dart gun. The incapacitating chemical the animals are darted with is etorphine, known to animal researchers as M99.

M99 is a synthetic opiate more than 500 times as powerful as morphine, more than 250 times as powerful as heroin. The great danger with M99 is that the lethal dose is only a few (normally three to six, depending on the animal) times higher than the effective incapacitating dose.

M99 is widely and commercially available. The Russians' "secret" is that they made an aerosol spray out of M99 (normally a powder dissolved in water), converting it into a "gas." Their grave mistake was that they guessed too high on what the effective dose would be.

Too much M99 causes respiratory paralysis. The muscles of your lungs and diaphragm can't move. Death from hypoxia – no air, no oxygen – comes quickly. And that's what happened to the 116 dead hostages: They stopped breathing.[/i:3c58bc6340]

[i:3c58bc6340]Prior to the assault, the commandos pumped an "incapacitating gas" into the theater via the ventilation system. The gas did its job. All of the terrorists were immobilized, some of them women, wearing bomb belts and sitting among the hostages, who had threatened to blow themselves up along with all the people around them if an attack was made upon them. [/i:3c58bc6340]

So there you are .....is this the gas that the east european gangs are using on unsuspecting motorhomers and truck drivers?

Mike

HelenB · Moderator

Sounds feasible Mike, but why in that case have their been no deaths from a gas like that surely it can't be that they have just been lucky so far?

Anonymous

I did a search on dogpile and the only reference I could find re gas attacks was in MotorhomeFacts. This post is making my brain hurt. I was undecided when it first started and still undecided a year later.

On the one hand it seems certain that people have been robbed while they sleep and are convinced gas was used while on the other hand, experts have said it is impossible to do.

So perhaps we should be widening our thoughts as to other methods that may have been used but give the impression that gas is the culprit. Is there a Nightol or Horlicks spray?

peedee

Experts are not always right! Take the cases of the women jailed for the deaths of their children by a so called expert and the sitings of UFOs which some pour cold water upon. Of course some are completely false but did't one eventually emerge to be the 'stealth plane' built by the USA?

I for one voted that I do think they occur inspite of all said here. I will be erring on the safe side, I won't go so far as fitting a gas alarm but I will certainly be wary where I park and will be beefing up my security this year.

peedee

GeorgeTelford · Account Deactivated

Hi Peedee

I think the children case was different in that they could not believe that so many children in the care of the same women all died from cot death, I think the conviction was based on the odds against and the fact that its hard to determine the actual cause of death, which is why the conviction is unsafe. I would think she as not been proved Innocent its more that they have not enough evidence to prove guilt and thats a totally different thing, I have no idea if she is guilty or not

Back to robbery gas attacks, The simple fact that wrong percentages Kill and the fact that with people of different body weights cannot be catered for would make deaths a certainty, also some would be nearer the ingress of gas and some further away, anaesthetists can get it wrong even when up close and personal, how can some scrote spray gas in randomly and do a better Job than an anaesthtist? Old young pregnat etc all effect amount required, take all this into consideration and you still think it possible that some scrote can do it?

Same Special forces as example above, even when they get Carte Blanche to operate, as a soporific ever been used operationally other than the well documented effort above? check out results.

All the ones claimed to have been used are highley flammable, yet no fires or bangs from fridge pilot light? Have the vans ever caught fire next day due to all this flammable gas absorbed into furniture? No-one as ever mentioned the smell. Read up on the gases most iginite with the tiniest hint of static, in theatre they have many precautions because of this.

Every shred of evidence says Its not possible, its never happened, its an URBAN LEGEND without any shadow of doubt.

Elvis is more likely to be alive and wild camping all over europe.

peedee

Whether guilty or not the experts were believed and they are not always right.

I know you will never be convinced otherwise George but the Ruskies must have thought they stood a fair chance of suceding. Doesn't a thief operate on this basis? All villains are not so dumb as people would like to think. Don't some of them make up synthetic drugs or process the raw material to produce them so why could they not make up/get hold of a gas? They sell drugs knowing that it could kill someone so why not use a gas with the possible consequence of an overdose. It must be much easier to get the quantity within safe limits in a confined space to effect a few people than in the huge space of a theatre holding hundreds of people.

I'll maintain an open mind on the subject.

peedee

HelenB · Moderator

So I ask again why no deaths and a post mortem that concludes cause of death that is linked to a gas, I cannot believe some people, especially asthmatics, would not be more vunerable to gas than a 13stone healthy man and if gas had been used would have died as a result of inhalation

peedee

Could it be sheer luck? Do we really know the margins for error are very small? Perhaps because no one has died there is a fair amount of tolerance on the other hand unlike drug taking perhaps there have been insufficient incidents for any errors to show up?

peedee