LPG Drop out holes Forums

GeorgeTelford

Hi Arc

What you post says is that you agree there is no regulation of who does it (unless its a rental vehicle in which case there is law insisting that its properly inspected and tested.)

If they (Prosecution / Criminal case? or defendant and Plaintiff in the more likely scenario of litigation) base their case on it, then they would have to agree that as long as it was done right then no Problem who did it (unless rental yada yada)

Many motorhomes imported into this country NEVER see a corgi check, If German it will "fail" on no drop out holes.

Based on your position they cannot sell a German motorhome over here?

There are many other vans that do not follow Gas regs at all, none would be saleable in the scenario that you put forth.

"My point is this, having read though some of the ridiculous 'opinions' proporting to be facts on the locked thread, unless one can state categorically a fact then give it as an opinion."

Other than By implication, I dont think you have shown any previous opinion is wrong.

Please show one ridiculous opinion and evidence to the contrary.

George

But remember the Overall motorhoming is very safe, Please dont have nightmares

Dishmop

I'm rather inclined to let people believe what they want to feel happy with.

If they want their lpg bottle in a steel lined vault and believe that it is law to do so then ok.

I people want drop out holes, same as above.

Somebody once told me that he was told he couldnt go onto a a campsite because he didnt have a safety certificate for his gas, and a caravan dealer said much the same thing to me about 20 years ago.

Boff

Hi George!

Maybe for the first time I can prove you wrong Wink

:

[quote:97f726ac92="GeorgeTelford"]FACT : German Vans do not have drop out holes for Gas.[/quote:97f726ac92]

[b:97f726ac92]This is not correct![/b:97f726ac92]

Regulations regarding gas in motorhomes are (as usual in Germany) very strict. Some of them, but by far not all, are:

1. You may store up to two bottles of gas.
2. They must be stored in a special gas locker accessible only from the outside.
3. The gas locker must be sealed air-tight against the interior.
[b:97f726ac92]4. It must have ventilation holes of at least 100 square centimetres effective area per bottle at the bottom![/b:97f726ac92]
5. All gas appliances must be fitted with a protection against flame blowouts: Should the flame be blown out the appliance must shut off gas supply within 30 seconds.
6. The gas system must be checked by a certified expert every two years and after every modification.
7. This regular check must be recorded in a gas safety certificate which has to be carried in the van.
8. All modifications of the gas system also have to be recorded in the safety certificate.
9. Vans without a valid gas certificate will not pass the "TÜV", the mandatory bi-annual vehicle control (corresponding to your MOT, I think).

You are however right in one aspect:
Drop out holes [i:97f726ac92]in the cab or habitation area floor[/i:97f726ac92] are not allowed, unless they are automatically sealed when the engine is started. This is to prevent exhaust fumes to be pulled into the van while driving. For the same reason your normal car will not pass the "TÜV" if there are rust holes in the floor.

And there is an exception to rule no. 2:
Under the condition that outside ventilation is provided, it is opening at the top side and this hatch has an airtight seal, it is allowed to make the gas locker accessible from the inside of the van. However in this case certain devices like automatic reserve bottle switchers are not allowed.

There are numerous other regulations e.g. regarding the max. content of a gas bottle, the size and material of the gas pipes, the number and positioning of shutoff valves, gas pressure and so on.

Best Regards,
Gerhard

Merlin2

The fact is any Tom Dick or George can install gas appliances in there own motorhome if they know what they are doing, with or without drop out holes, or a steel box. However if they want to hire out the van, that is a different matter. As for the resale I am not sure. If its badly fitted by a motorhome specialist and it blows up they should have insurance to cover for this. Myself I never sell on any of my vans when I have finished with them, they end up at the scrap yard.

Dishmop

[quote:d31b488e58]Myself I never sell on any of my vans when I have finished with them, they end up at the scrap yard.[/quote:d31b488e58]

My thoughts go partly that way.

I would be inclined to disconnect the gas supply and remove the cylinder.

Rather like what some dealers do.

GeorgeTelford

Hi Gerhard

I said they dont have drop out holes, the bit I read said none and why ie the CO Fumes, it didnt specifically mention the gas locker, according to UK rules the interior as to have drop out holes though, so it is still outside of UK Regs. BTW I did mention that the ~German regs were more stringent.

Germany

6. The gas system must be checked by a certified expert every two years and after every modification.

UK

We have "regs" but they only have to be followed under a limited set of scenario's. By anyone who can read and follow the rules.

I totally agree with Arc that Litigation could be a factor, it just doesnt make it a law as such.

George

arcsystems

Aha now we are getting some facts on German regulations and very similar to our British Standards.
I have just found a note in BS5482 which states; Particular care has been taken with the object of overcoming special problems with ventilation of motor caravans. Reference should be made to the current Motor Vehicles (construction and use) Regulation.
There is a strong move toward the 'who to blame' attitude in this country as recent tragic events and subsequent court cases have shown. Getting it right is now the only option and the "that's near enough"or "I thought that was correct" attitude does not cut any ice when the proverbial hits the fan.
Your question George on selling German vans over here is partly answered by the existence of fairly equal regulation in both Country's. However to be sold over here in general they must meet NCC approval, their criteria is wholly based on British Standards and other relevant regulation, in fact they are party to it. It matters not if these criteria are ignored unless something goes wrong and that is when the courts will decide who is to blame. It would seem there are those that put their head in the sand and hope for the best with what they think they know. Personally I will go out of my way to make sure I know for sure before I start and certainly before stating 'facts' on here.

Dishmop

[quote:b8f5afe57b]However to be sold over here in general they must meet NCC approval[/quote:b8f5afe57b]

That only applies if the imprter/seller wants to be able stick a label on the van saying that it meets NCC standards.

The van does not have to meet that approval before it can be sold.

As I said before, I can buy a van, convert it and sell it. It wouldnt even have to have an MOT if it was less than 3 years old. However, it it blew up, it would be up to somebody esle to decide itf the cause of the explosion was my fault because of a dangerous installation or because the owner was negligent.

GeorgeTelford

Hi Arc

Similar is not the same. Send one of ours over there and it will fail, they send theirs over here no probs because we dont check.

Most motorhomes are not NCC approved. A lot dont even have flame resistant/retardent cushions and materials.

BTW its not nice shooting the messenger I am one of those saying it doesnt meet regs and as you have just confirmed, it doesnt.

See also "The Gerhard 240v socket in a showeroom Question" its seen on several imported Motorhomes and caravans.

George