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I have towed a fiat seicento on a unbraked A frame for 5 years without any problems. The motorhome was a cheyenne 634 with fiat 2.8 jdt and air suspension (not fitted for towing but was really good when being overtaken by large vehicles) which performed well, like others we did not know it was there. It regularly returned 26-28mpg, however I never loaded it and kept the petrol tank no more than half full. We have just changed our motorhome which is now on a peugeot 2.8 hdi on the heavy chassis (alko)and yet to tow the car, so far only 400 miles but it feels that the 5th gear is a higher ratio. I may consider a smart box or remapping so any pointers here would be appreciated.
Hi zappy61,
only just seen your post,I also have the Autotrail Cheyenne 2.8JTD and have just had it re-mapped see
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and scroll down to my last post for a report on the results.
Steve
______________________________________________________________ Life is merry with a Welshie and a Kerry
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I have towed a fiat seicento on a unbraked A frame for 5 years without any problems
You've been lucky then, as the Fiat's MAM is over 750kg, and you're committing an offence which - as stated copious times ad infinitum - will almost certainly invalidate your insurance if you have an accident in which the toad is a contributory factor.
Dougie.
You do keep refering to this 750kg gross weight irrelevance. All cars used as trailers MUST use a BRAKED a-frame by virtue of the fact they all have brakes fitted which must be operable via the towing vehicle.
The whole a-frame legality debate is only a grey area because there are so many variables in each combination as taken to the road (as, indeed with towing any other trailer).
Some combinations meet the trailer regs ie they are braked, meet the lighting regs, meet the signing regs and can be reversed a few yards under most conditions, so are legal in this country until proved otherwise.
Other combinations do not meet the trailer regs ie, can't be reversed (the trailer regs DO NOT actually call for "auto-reverse" brakes as fitted to caravans but ask for capability) are unbraked, do not carry red triangles etc etc and so are illegal.
It is the driver's responsibility to ensure legality every trip and in use, something a manufacturer can only add to the concept not the actuality; which is why it is hugely irritating that they are still selling unbraked a-frames and leading their buyers to maybe commit an offence! I suppose they could be used with Brakebuddys or other non-overun systems but that has got to be unlikely.
Regards,
Noel.
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zappy61 wrote: Select
I have towed a fiat seicento on a unbraked A frame for 5 years without any problems
He did not mention any irrelevance to weight.
Quote:
You do keep refering to this 750kg gross weight irrelevance.
We all know very well by now the "rules" on trailer towing, whatever that trailer may be, whether it be by number of wheels, weight etc.
I towed a Smart on an unbraked A frame for 2 years without any problem. I also know the Smart is under 750kg UNLADEN and that does NOT make it "acceptable" as it is the possible laden weight that matters and the fact that it had brakes which should have worked also will not have been "acceptable"
BUT we both said we have towed without any problems. Illegal it MAY be. We were/are just making a statement and not offering advice.
I now do tow with a braked A frame as we have replaced the Smart with someting a bit bigger. Had we gone down the trailer route with the car on the trailer we would have been seriously overweight.
So, I ask you, which is the lesser of the 2 evils?
A car on a braked A frame?
A car on a trailer making the outfit overweight?
cat amongst pigeons
______________________________________________________________ Be seeing you! No. 6
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zappy61 wrote: Select
I have towed a fiat seicento on a unbraked A frame for 5 years without any problems
He did not mention any irrelevance to weight.
Quote:
You do keep refering to this 750kg gross weight irrelevance.
We all know very well by now the "rules" on trailer towing, whatever that trailer may be, whether it be by number of wheels, weight etc.
I towed a Smart on an unbraked A frame for 2 years without any problem. I also know the Smart is under 750kg UNLADEN and that does NOT make it "acceptable" as it is the possible laden weight that matters and the fact that it had brakes which should have worked also will not have been "acceptable"
BUT we both said we have towed without any problems. Illegal it MAY be. We were/are just making a statement and not offering advice.
I now do tow with a braked A frame as we have replaced the Smart with someting a bit bigger. Had we gone down the trailer route with the car on the trailer we would have been seriously overweight.
So, I ask you, which is the lesser of the 2 evils?
A car on a braked A frame?
A car on a trailer making the outfit overweight?
cat amongst pigeons
I was replying directly to asprn not zappy61 and he said zappy61 was lucky not to be done for the offence of using an unbraked a-frame because the car was over 750kg gross (please follow the thread). This may lead someone to believe that it is ok to tow a car under 750kg gross weight with an unbraked a-frame and is the only criteria. It is not and is irrelevant when towing a trailer fitted with brakes!
We all know that towing on an unbraked a-frame will not give 99% of towers any practical problems whatsoever and is far safer than towing a trailer but that was not the issue in this case. I do not think that we do "all" know the trailer rules and that is the real issue behind a-frame "legality" as I said the concept is legal but the application by a great many is not.
I have towed many 1000's of miles over 3 years in UK, France, Belgium, Holland & Germany and am as satisfied as I can be that my particular combination meets the many aspects of trailer regulation but I am open to informed comment as to why I don't!
Noel.
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asprn wrote: Select Expand
zappy61 wrote: Select
I have towed a fiat seicento on a unbraked A frame for 5 years without any problems
You've been lucky then, as the Fiat's MAM is over 750kg, and you're committing an offence which - as stated copious times ad infinitum - will almost certainly invalidate your insurance if you have an accident in which the toad is a contributory factor.
Dougie.
Which quotes comments from both zappy61 and Dougie and did not indicate to whom the reply was directly intended for.
Sorry for mis understanding.
I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,
______________________________________________________________ Be seeing you! No. 6
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I was replying directly to asprn ... This may lead someone to believe that it is ok to tow a car under 750kg gross weight with an unbraked a-frame and is the only criteria. It is not and is irrelevant when towing a trailer fitted with brakes
I accept the point - what I said was in fact misleading, and you are correct. Thanks.
Dougie.
______________________________________________________________ Iīm playing all the right notes... but not necessarily in the right order.
.
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asprn wrote: Select Expand
zappy61 wrote: Select
I have towed a fiat seicento on a unbraked A frame for 5 years without any problems
You've been lucky then, as the Fiat's MAM is over 750kg, and you're committing an offence which - as stated copious times ad infinitum - will almost certainly invalidate your insurance if you have an accident in which the toad is a contributory factor.
Dougie.
Which quotes comments from both zappy61 and Dougie and did not indicate to whom the reply was directly intended for.
Sorry for mis understanding.
I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,I must follow all threads more closely,
This is what happens when you click on the relevant post's "quote" button it shows the sub-quotes like a tree structure, just expand the main box! Thanks for the reply though!
Noel.
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I was replying directly to asprn ... This may lead someone to believe that it is ok to tow a car under 750kg gross weight with an unbraked a-frame and is the only criteria. It is not and is irrelevant when towing a trailer fitted with brakes
I accept the point - what I said was in fact misleading, and you are correct. Thanks.
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