Welcome to Motorhomefacts, we are a thriving motorhome community (Largest in Europe). Why Not JOIN NOW and get instant access to more of the website. It costs nothing to join and only takes a few minutes. We have 200,000 different people visiting our site monthly and this amount of motorhomers in one place guarantees a fast response to any questions you may have. We also have unique facilities not found elsewhere such as our Online Logbook, stopover tracker, Motorhome directory with Ebay type feedback and the largest repository of motorhome campsites reviews found anywhere
Yet again, we get this hoary old and incorrect chestnut of cars under 750kg laden weight being able to be towed on an un-braked A-frame being perpetuated in Practical Motorhome July issue p.85
If a trailer is already fitted with brakes they must be operative; Q.E.D. as all cars have brakes (even Aixams etc) then any car used as a trailer must have a BRAKED a-frame or use an electric brake buddy system or similar. The 750kg laden weight regulation is totally irrelevant in the context of towing a car as a trailer.
I think that what A-framers and particularly prospective A-framers need to realise that this is NOT just a “fit and forget” or “get in and drive” system designed by a big car/MH/caravan manufacturer for your average dozy punter and backed up by comprehensive manuals/instructions and service support.
You DO need to take responsibility and have SOME technical ability to ensure that YOU meet the UK trailer braking and lighting regulations and that the braking over-run system is correctly set up each and every time you take to the road. Having said that it is about time that A-frame manufacturers and sellers also took more responsibility for instruction and knowledge of the regulations.
It is of little use railing against Spanish or other country’s police when the practice is forbidden for their nationals and expecting the average police officer (who probably has more discretion/powers than ours to levy on-the-spot fines) to know that under EU law and reciprocity he/her is expected to know it is ok to let us loose on their roads. All we can really do is ensure that we fulfil our obligation to meet our law and then either stay at home or take the chance that we will have to either successfully or unsuccessfully argue our case.
Yet again, we get this hoary old and incorrect chestnut of cars under 750kg laden weight being able to be towed on an un-braked A-frame being perpetuated in Practical Motorhome July issue p.85
Noel,
What what it's worth, I'll put my weight behind this. Two years ago, I challenged an A-frame manufacturer's website claim that trailers under 750kg were exempt from brakes - they entirely missed the point you make above that if fitted, brakes have to work. I can't remember which manufacturer it was (and they didn't reply), but I've checked the main ones today and can't find any wrong references.
Yet again we have more NCC/NTTA propaganda in a motorhome mag!
Here is my reply:-
Dear Bob,
Your article on pages 34/35 of October's issue of Motorhome Monthly is riddled with inaccuracies, irrelevancies, selective quoting and bias, as would be expected from the NCC an organisation closely allied to the NTTA and both involved, obviously, in promoting caravans and trailers.
The old chestnut of trailers can be unbraked under 750kg GVW is irrelevant as all cars have brakes fitted and if a trailer has brakes they must work and be operated; QED all cars being towed must use a braked a-frame irrespective of the car's weight. Unlike the article's assertion most a-framers know this fact and do not tow with an unbraked a-frame.
The car/trailer only has to achieve 50% of the combination's braking efficiency and the over-run system employed via a cable pulling on the brake pedal, has been shown to easily achieve this even without servo assistance. Servo assistance only makes a driver's effort on the brake pedal easier and does not contribute to brake performance as such. A car's brakes are designed to be inherently more efficient than a trailer or caravan, the reasons being obvious!
Most TOADS can be reversed when their brake cable is properly adjusted. Also tow weight capability and gross train weight is laden (i.e. actual) weight NOT kerb weight plus the weight of the trailer as stated in the article, although these two weights are obviously included in laden weight. http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers
I note that elsewhere in your mag (p.3) you include a link to faq on motorhomefacts which perpetuates some of the NTTA's line and is very disappointing, as for years they have elsewhere had a more balanced appraisal in their forums and members' help sheets.
However I think that what A-framers and particularly prospective A-framers need to realise that this is NOT just a “fit and forget” or “get in and drive” system designed by a big car/MH/caravan manufacturer for your average dozy punter and backed up by comprehensive manuals/instructions and service support.
You DO need to take responsibility and have SOME technical ability to ensure that YOU meet the UK trailer braking and lighting regulations and that the braking over-run system is correctly set up each and every time you take to the road. Having said that, it is about time that A-frame manufacturers and sellers also took more responsibility for instruction and knowledge of the regulations.
Yet again we have more NCC/NTTA propaganda in a motorhome mag!
Noel
I have been very impressed, as have many others, with your grasp of this very complex subject and your balanced patient views throughout this long post - yes, I have just read all 14 pages! Please don't succumb to the opinionated intolerence I believe I have sensed elsewhere.
I did not find Ewan Shaw's article "riddled with inaccuracies, irrelevancies, selective quoting and bias". On the contrary it seems quite accurate if a little light on detail - nowhere near as comprehensive as your original post. I think Ewan's purpose was to highlight the impending changes to UNECE Regulation 13 - and it does seem to have brought this into the spotlight.
You and COPS chappy (sorry, I can't delve back into the thread for the name while I am replying) have been brilliant.
Have you seen http://www.smart-tow.com - this seems to have a pump to energise the brake servo as DoT suggest and, due to the dual sensing system, the ability to reverse automatically.
I think this post by siansdad is relevant and would have liked to integrate it into my original post if we didn't now have this ludicrous rule that you can't edit anything after 15 mins
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
All times are GMT + 1 Hour Page 14 of 14Goto page : Previous1, 2, 3 ... 12, 13, 14
France
