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We dont need winter tyres, just sensible drivers. In most of the country we do not see real snow.
Most of the UK all that is needed is drivers with a lighter right foot.
A point in case,
Who mentioned snow tyres?
Maybe I should put in the topic "Cold weather tyres".
Does anyone know the braking difference between a standard saloon summer tyre and a winter tyre at say 8 degrees c?.
But I do agree with you on the right foot statement, bad thing is when that right foot needs to shift to the brake, the wrong tyres could render them near useless.
I find this 'We're so unprepared..... 2cm of snow and we're stranded...etc' discussion interesting. But I think it's because we are annoyingly on the cusp of everything extreme but never actually experience it for more than a day or two.
When I go to scandinavian countries in spring and Autumn, you can be walking down the street and hear that ticky tacky sound of spiked snow tyres on tarmac. I had to ask a guy I was working with what the sound was! His answer was "winter is coming". But, if you had spiked tyres on in the UK you'd be bonkers because for the chance of getting snow 1 day you'd be tottering about on(and completely trashing) a set of tyres totally unsutable for everyday UK speeds and driving styles. But in Helsinki or Stockholm you can bet yer life that the snow is coming and you better be prepared. And not just for convenience. After a certain date in these countries, you better have your snow tyres on when the first flakes fall or you are in DEEP doo doo with Mr. plod. Did you know that the day you have to change to winters is like a national refernce point in many scandinavian countries?
Yes, you do see some stupid driving in the UK when it snows, but it's not ALL ignorance. If you grew up sliding around on snow you're going to understand it. Walking on snow is the same. I bet they do it better! They've done it every winter since they were kids. We don't get chance to practice.
In Stockholm, when you pull up at the lights in the snow you leave a good cars length to the car in front. This is so that when the lights change you all get away swiftly and safely without worrying about whacking eachother.
I spent a few days in Helsinki last year and had to get taxis to and from the arena on the other side of town. I loved it! Seeing a cabbie in an automatic merc saloon controlling slides and driving in a city centre at rush hour without hitting anyone despite being in full 'cabbie' mode! Then the run to and from the airport where multiple lanes of traffic travel side by side at 70mph on a motorway with tramlines for tarmac but nobody crashes. It's like they all know what those around them are doing/experiencing. I loved it. But we can't blame everyone over here for not being ready for something you can't practice on!
When my step-son had his first car and it snowed I took him to a remote place and got him to slide about a bit because you really have no comprehension of how it is to slip around until you've done it. So why do we expect Mrs Smith from down the road in her Fiesta to turn into Tommi Makkinen at the first flurry?
Then again, if they can build a snowdome for snowboarding?............hmmmmm, now that would make taking yer test a bit more interesting!
Look at the population of Finland and look at how many world class Rally Drivers they have produced. Look at the stats for Britain and most of them have been Scottish. More snow, more experience of sliding around, no panic when the wheel goes light and so on.
I suppose what I'm trying to say here is is that despite the fact that we all THINK we're great at driving on snow we don't all have an agreed plan. We don't know what other people's approach to the next junction/roundabout/hill is so no matter how good we are as individuals we're always going to grind to a halt and crash into eachother.
However, I'd like to see any of these people keep a level head at the Dartford Tunnel at rush hour. Oh yes, that's a skill we British should be proud of!
Last edited by jimbo_hippo on Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
if winter tyres were that great they would be fitted as standard.
obviously somewhere there is a downside. people are then free to choose whether or not to accept the downside for the advantages.
the m11 was a freak (assuming we are both on about the motorway that a couple of yrs ago was blocked for several miles due to a bit of snow)
winter tyres wouldn't have helped as the road was blocked with people who didn't have winter tyres and hence were blocking the road.
i've seen plenty of places jammed up abroad due to inclement weather, it's not just a British thing
Lots of things in a motorvehicle are great, many of them do not come as standard. Sat Nav, diesel Pre-heaters, heated windscreens, heated seats, Bluetooth!. Bear in mind most cars in the UK are registred in the Summer.
Yes There may be downsides of fitting appropraite tyres, if that means if driver who has inappropriate tyres fitted and skids into someone resulting in injury or death, that makes it okay?.
Yes same M11.
"winter tyres wouldn't have helped as the road was blocked with people who didn't have winter tyres and hence were blocking the road."
Now let me just read this again! Richs2000, I think you may need to re-phrase that one. The answer is in there somewhere.
Its not just a British thing, you maybe correct and your point is? does that fact that it does not just happen to us again makes it okay for us to drive on the wrong tyres?.
I find this 'We're so unprepared..... 2cm of snow and we're stranded...etc' discussion interesting. But I think it's because we are annoyingly on the cusp of everything extreme but never actually experience it for more than a day or two.
When I go to scandinavian countries in spring and Autumn, you can be walking down the street and hear that ticky tacky sound of spiked snow tyres on tarmac. I had to ask a guy I was working with what the sound was! His answer was "winter is coming". But, if you had spiked tyres on in the UK you'd be bonkers because for the chance of getting snow 1 day you'd be tottering about on(and completely trashing) a set of tyres totally unsutable for everyday UK speeds and driving styles. But in Helsinki or Stockholm you can bet yer life that the snow is coming and you better be prepared. And not just for convenience. After a certain date in these countries, you better have your snow tyres on when the first flakes fall or you are in DEEP doo doo with Mr. plod. Did you know that the day you have to change to winters is like a national refernce point in many scandinavian countries?
Yes, you do see some stupid driving in the UK when it snows, but it's not ALL ignorance. If you grew up sliding around on snow you're going to understand it. Walking on snow is the same. I bet they do it better! They've done it every winter since they were kids. We don't get chance to practice.
In Stockholm, when you pull up at the lights in the snow you leave a good cars length to the car in front. This is so that when the lights change you all get away swiftly and safely without worrying about whacking eachother.
I spent a few days in Helsinki last year and had to get taxis to and from the arena on the other side of town. I loved it! Seeing a cabbie in an automatic merc saloon controlling slides and driving in a city centre at rush hour without hitting anyone despite being in full 'cabbie' mode! Then the run to and from the airport where multiple lanes of traffic travel side by side at 70mph on a motorway with tramlines for tarmac but nobody crashes. It's like they all know what those around them are doing/experiencing. I loved it. But we can't blame everyone over here for not being ready for something you can't practice on!
When my step-son had his first car and it snowed I took him to a remote place and got him to slide about a bit because you really have no comprehension of how it is to slip around until you've done it. So why do we expect Mrs Smith from down the road in her Fiesta to turn into Tommi Makkinen at the first flurry?
Then again, if they can build a snowdome for snowboarding?............hmmmmm, now that would make taking yer test a bit more interesting!
Look at the population of Finland and look at how many world class Rally Drivers they have produced. Look at the stats for Britain and most of them have been Scottish. More snow, more experience of sliding around, no panic when the wheel goes light and so on.
I suppose what I'm trying to say here is is that despite the fact that we all THINK we're great at driving on snow we don't all have an agreed plan. We don't know what other people's approach to the next junction/roundabout/hill is so no matter how good we are as individuals we're always going to grind to a halt and crash into eachother.
However, I'd like to see any of these people keep a level head at the Dartford Tunnel at rush hour. Oh yes, that's a skill we British should be proud of!
Hello Jimbo_hippo,
Again a case in point,
I never suggested that anyone fit Studded Nordic Winter tyres for use in the UK!.
I think the fitment of Northern European winter tyres to vehicles in the UK should be given some serious thought. Especially for us motorhome users due to the places some of us may venture in the cold seasons.
Just to reiterate, I am not talking about studded tyres or snow tyres. I am suggesting better all season M+S tyres or Northern European Winter tyres.
I mentioned Norway as the extreme to our winters and how they cope with it. When I passed my test all them years ago, we used to drive up to the moors to sled and have fun in the snow. Even then many people used to think anyone who drove on a white road was crazy, guess they may be correct in one sense.
Newsflash from a Derbyshire website 1st February 2008
Updated Every 5 minutes 3cm of Snow on the Ground - The Snow Showers have moved away Eastwards now BUT the roads are TOTAL CHAOS with lorries stuck on ice & snow, so traffic is backing up in all directions - 22.45 Friday - KEEP AWAY FROM BUXTON IF YOU CAN !!!
Anyone get my point ?
So wish I did not have so much to do tommorow, realy fancied a weekedn at Longnor wood.
But this is a cultural thing as much as common sense. For example, I have 4 vehicles here at the moment, mine, the other half's, my stepsons and a motorhome. How many of these do I have winter WHEELS and tyres for? None. That's because in this country we have no culture of having winter WHEELS and tyres. I for one am not going to pay for a set of low profile slighty pricey summer tyres to ditch them for winters unless I have rims to put them on. Then I can get another 20K out of my summers slipping up and down the M1 for a year when spring comes around. Make it the law and I might reconsider.
In Cananda, Scandinavia, Russia etc, everyone assumes they need 2 set of complete wheels and tyres and allows a space to store them, has the knowledge and equipment to swap them and knows why they need them. So we need to either be educated or have legisation to force us to do it because if I think back to my days of living in a flat, having the space for a set of scruffy steelys with winters on was never going to happen. But my friends in Finland MAKE the space or store them at their parents. Plus, vanity comes high on my list and if I have some sexy 17inch low profiles I'm not gonna drive around on chunky tyres and rusty steel wheels if my neighbours aren't. Sad but true!
I'm not picking a fight with you here Teemyob, in fact from my travels and experience I agree with you very strongly but this isn't part of our culture and unless someone forces us to do it we won't. We don't have the extremes to make this work. Yes, today, there's snow on the ground in certain places. I drove from North Yorks to Newcastle and back today with the radio going bonkers about snow chaos but no sign of snow. Yet 20 miles to my left there are 150 folk in cars stuck on the A66. But in Canada EVERYONE is in snow not just a 10 mile stretch for 1 day. Lets revisit this thread on 9th Feb, 7 days from now and I bet its just soggy old England again. Out of the millions of motorists rattling round the UK today, how many have had snow between them and tarmac and how many would know how to drive on winters if they had them?
And I see your last post about Derbyshire but to be fair, the radio has been telling people not to venture out in the north east and down as far as Lincolnshire since lunchtime so if you are out in that you are either nuts or you have your winter wheels on!
In the interest of giving a balanced and agreeable response I can tell you that I have proved your theory and mine simultaneously when I owned an Impreza Turbo. Thinking myself invincible in my 4x4 velcro warrior, I drove around my neighbourhood on 18inch low profiles and quickly doscovered that skinny tyres that don't flex, fill up with snow and don't work sub 0 degrees equates to you being in someones front garden no matter how much 4x4 wizardry is in your ECU. I'd have done better in a Mk1 Escort with snow chains on!
Does anyone know the braking difference between a standard saloon summer tyre and a winter tyre at say 8 degrees c?.
Trev
I once had the brakes upgraded on a performance car and discovered that my new challenge was to not to marvel at how much faster I stopped than the car in front but watch my rear view mirror to avoid having someone stuffed in the back of me. Going back to the Stockholm example, everyone behaves and anticipates the same because they have the same hardware whether they drive an Austin Allegro or a Buggatti. It's a popular misconception that being able to stop better than the guy in front makes you safe. When you whack yer foot on the carbon fibre discs, check your rear view for the guy who doesn't have them appearing at a rear parcel shelf near you really soon.
Unless EVERYONE get winters (not studded, just winters) it's neither here nor there. The reason I mention the Stockholm thing and the fact that its' cultural is because when they do the 10ft distance balet at the lights (worth seeing by the way) and they drive 70mph side by side on the snow it's because they are all equal.
On the computer you are currently typing on, there are a lot of advances in speed and performance but underneath, one of the main advances is data flow management. Not getting data to bash into eachother is a bigger breakthrough than the pentium 96 gazzilion whatever. PCI data management means no crashes bangs and wallops. If we get everyone thinking the same with the roads then we might be onto something. But do we need it 364 days a year?
Apart from the winter tyre/summer tyre argument......it would be a good starting point if everyone made sure they had good quality tyres fitted with PLENTY of tread ALWAYS !!!!
Talking about people being incapable of driving in snowy conditions.......you want to try driving in Spain after having what we would call a shower of rain..........now THAT is FRIGHTENING !!!!!!!!!!!
Lynda
Considering we had a miserable summer, cold weather tyres would have been a good choice.
Cold weather tyres become even more effective below +10c. Consider that many commuters go out early when the tarmac is cool and drive home when the sun has gone down, cold weather would have been a better bet.
I was watching the BBC news last night/this mornong. Not sure if anyone else noticed the Mercedes C series coupe being pushed in central London (shown over an over again) you may have noticed that the driver failed to turn off the ASR, causing the system to cut in an make his dilema even worse.
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