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You haven't offended me in the slightest. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I understand from another thread started by Andy Stothert the MMM journalist that the main engine block is shared with Ford but the cylinder head and transmission arrangements are completely different.
I think the main objectives of the previously mentioned thread are to ensure that Fiat live up to their responsibilities and to ensure that owners of their vehicles are adequately protected against transmission faults either during or after the warranty expires.
The following members of MHF thanked gelathae for this posting
I have to say on reading through the various threads that I am very pleased our vehicle is an '03 reg Kontiki 615, it drives beautifully, stops superbly, corners like a dream and goes backwards without any complaints (except from my warning system if it's raining and she's getting wet!)
Having watched programmes like "Watchdog" I am well aware of the difficulties in persuading vehicle manufacturers to admit there is a fault - they seem excellent at camouflage and evasion of all criticism. Swift do NOT make the base vehicle, they "merely" convert it (and I could not do that!) they have said they are in discussion with Fiat, but I suspect even with their clout it will be like beating your head against a brick wall to get Fiat to admit there may be a problem with SOME of their vehicles.
As an outsider to this problem I wonder whether there are any similairities that could enable a group of vehicles to be identified as being at greater risk, eg when were they made by Fiat, how does the loading compare, is it the same engine/ clutch / gearbox ?
I have read from various threads that identifying what components you have under the bonnet is not an exact science even if you look. Has anyone tried to collect and collate all of the information? That is when contacting a programme such as Watchdog may be helpful but for them it's a specialist market and not a very large one or one with instant safety concerns (OK I accept that havng your gearbox disintegrate is a safety concern if you are doing 50+ mph, but if it's on reverse at less than 10mph is it the same concern for safety?) they will not be able to attract "instant" public condemnation and concerns. Which is probably just as well for companies such as Swift trying to produce an excellent product and support their customers.
Yes the cost of the vehicles is a massive amount of money but the number that have failed is not going to grab people's attention. Remember the failing bonnet locks highlighted last year and the year before - how long did that take to solve? Even then the company (was it Renault?) produced a conversion kit, they did not recall all the vehicles.
It will take a long time to solve, even longer to get Fiat to admit it's their fault; they only make the base vehicles and are not responsible for what happens to them after the have left their care! Do ordinary "white vans" based on the same chassis / engine / gearbox fail? I don't know!
A long submission, but I strongly believe someone needs to collect the information about failures so that they have the strength of detailed numbers and information to present to Fiat. One or two vehicles they can shrug shoulders and say it's a one off, 100 or 200 much harder to do the same, 1000 - 2000 very difficult to deny.
The following members of MHF thanked Penquin for this posting
Great post, totally agree, we have the same thoughts, the bulk of these vehicles will have been sold to the commercial markets throughout the world.
It would be interesting to hear the views of a uk transport manager, his drivers will only have one goal, get out and back as soon as possible foot to the floor all day.
What I do not understand is after all the years of vehicle building how do they get it so wrong. Ford spongy brakes are due to having discs on all four wheels how many Ford cars have four wheel disc brakes? How many clutches and fly wheels have fiat made?
Les.
The following members of MHF thanked fransgrandad for this posting
I have to say on reading through the various threads that I am very pleased our vehicle is an '03 reg Kontiki 615, it drives beautifully, stops superbly, corners like a dream and goes backwards without any complaints (except from my warning system if it's raining and she's getting wet!)
Having watched programmes like "Watchdog" I am well aware of the difficulties in persuading vehicle manufacturers to admit there is a fault - they seem excellent at camouflage and evasion of all criticism. Swift do NOT make the base vehicle, they "merely" convert it (and I could not do that!) they have said they are in discussion with Fiat, but I suspect even with their clout it will be like beating your head against a brick wall to get Fiat to admit there may be a problem with SOME of their vehicles.
As an outsider to this problem I wonder whether there are any similairities that could enable a group of vehicles to be identified as being at greater risk, eg when were they made by Fiat, how does the loading compare, is it the same engine/ clutch / gearbox ?
I have read from various threads that identifying what components you have under the bonnet is not an exact science even if you look. Has anyone tried to collect and collate all of the information? That is when contacting a programme such as Watchdog may be helpful but for them it's a specialist market and not a very large one or one with instant safety concerns (OK I accept that havng your gearbox disintegrate is a safety concern if you are doing 50+ mph, but if it's on reverse at less than 10mph is it the same concern for safety?) they will not be able to attract "instant" public condemnation and concerns. Which is probably just as well for companies such as Swift trying to produce an excellent product and support their customers.
Yes the cost of the vehicles is a massive amount of money but the number that have failed is not going to grab people's attention. Remember the failing bonnet locks highlighted last year and the year before - how long did that take to solve? Even then the company (was it Renault?) produced a conversion kit, they did not recall all the vehicles.
It will take a long time to solve, even longer to get Fiat to admit it's their fault; they only make the base vehicles and are not responsible for what happens to them after the have left their care! Do ordinary "white vans" based on the same chassis / engine / gearbox fail? I don't know!
A long submission, but I strongly believe someone needs to collect the information about failures so that they have the strength of detailed numbers and information to present to Fiat. One or two vehicles they can shrug shoulders and say it's a one off, 100 or 200 much harder to do the same, 1000 - 2000 very difficult to deny.
We do feed back to Fiat all your concerns but as you say we area very small cog in the Fiat customer wheel! Peter.
The following members of MHF thanked SwiftGroup for this posting
We do feed back to Fiat all your concerns but as you say we area very small cog in the Fiat customer wheel! Peter.
Come on, they're only Italians, put your best suit on, gesticulate a lot and tell them are becoming a laughing stock. Tell them the Germans say gearboxes made by real men don't break. Tell them the French say they are such poor lovers they are only fit for making vibrators.
Remind them how we cured a nasty infestation for them on Monte Casino.
______________________________________________________________ Brian
The following members of MHF thanked hilldweller for this posting
I would be interested to hear Swifts opinions on the points made concerning the view that the Peugeot base is better than the Fiat one.
I have been a long time Swift critic but they are winning me round. I have recently looked at the Autocruise range and particular the Augusta which uses the 3.0Hdi Peugeot.
I suspect the 3.0 is in fact a fiat engine but other aspects of the base veicle have been suggested to be better.
Anyway Swift - you use Fiat for one brand and Peugeot for the other how do they compare in your opinion.
By the way I love my Fiat 2.3, chipped to 155hp. I'd pack up before I bought a Tranny!
The following members of MHF thanked averhamdave for this posting
Ford's line on this, is that they are a chararistic of the vehicle, and it is not a fault, I will not be buying another Transit. I have been driving for 40yrs, have driven every thing from mopeds to Artics and 25ton cranes, all over the world and never had brakes as bad as these on my current 07 Transit. Steve
The following members of MHF thanked johna for this posting
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