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I would like know where you sourced your information, because it slightly conflicts with what I have learnt.
Old Law as and up to vehicles manufactured to 10/07.... Forward facing passengers must wear a seatbelt. (thats it) No other reference is mentioned. Therefore, it is a very messy grey area, completely open to abuse. ie No reference made to side facing passengers or rear facing passengers. It is open to any barrister to contest in a court of law, either for or against.
New law, specifically for new vehicles manufactured after 10/07 but comes into effect next month. All manufacturers must specify how many passengers the vehicle may carry and provide seatbelts for them (I suspect these have to be homolagated and tested with whole vehicle type approval and cannot not be retro fitted by some nice mechanic, dealer or technician as an after market item) Therefore, whatever is fitted as new is all that is permitted to be carried. No more additions or modifications or variation.
Agree with your statement. However, when touring the continent and the Police insist you ditch the unbelted passengers, what use is a Barrister?.
I would like know where you sourced your information, because it slightly conflicts with what I have learnt.
Old Law as and up to vehicles manufactured to 10/07.... Forward facing passengers must wear a seatbelt. (thats it) No other reference is mentioned. Therefore, it is a very messy grey area, completely open to abuse. ie No reference made to side facing passengers or rear facing passengers. It is open to any barrister to contest in a court of law, either for or against.
New law, specifically for new vehicles manufactured after 10/07 but comes into effect next month. All manufacturers must specify how many passengers the vehicle may carry and provide seatbelts for them (I suspect these have to be homolagated and tested with whole vehicle type approval and cannot not be retro fitted by some nice mechanic, dealer or technician as an after market item) Therefore, whatever is fitted as new is all that is permitted to be carried. No more additions or modifications or variation.
But the new law isnt just for vehicles registered after 10/07 and I can see what will happen is exactly what teemyob as mentioned - that (if I have understood correctly) people will have to remove their existing seatbelts in the rear to be legal.
My other reason for resurrecting this is that recently I have been looking at many new and secondhand MHs that are luvly jubbly etc BUT only have bench seats in the rear. For me this is a fundamental deal breaker but I wonder whether purchasers are aware of the implications of this or just dont care?
The information was from the DOT directly,who were asked last year for their interpretation of the new law and how it would affect motorhomes.
As far as side facing seats are concerned,it is not safe to travel in a belted side facing seat.This was a EU directive from 2005.
From the Autotrail website;-
REAR DESIGNATED PASSENGER SEATS
Designated passenger seats in the rear of a motorhome are those seats specifically designed to be used by passengers whilst the vehicle is in motion. These seats must have either forward or rear facing seatbelts and these seatbelts must be used by any passengers travelling in the rear of the vehicle. These seats will be clearly marked with a label adjacent to the seat indicating that they are designated travelling seats.
New European Legislation (EC Directive 2005/39/EC) states that to travel in a sideways facing seat with a seat belt is unsafe and that from 20th October 2007, new vehicles will not be allowed to be registered with sideways facing designated travelling seats.
As you can see manufacturers now have to state which are the designated passenger seats in the rear,and they must be either front or rear facing,they cannot register new vehicles with designated passenger seats that are sideways facing.
There are some vagaries in the law and people will undoubtably interpret them differently.In older vehicles before 2007 for example you can travel legally in a belted side facing seat,yet the directive above says it is not safe to do so
Another one is you can carry as many passengers in the rear as you like in a pre 2007 vehicle(provided it is not overloaded)if there are no seatbelts fitted.
I think the law is quite clear for vehicles registered after 2007,it is older m/homes where folks get confused-including me
______________________________________________________________ cheers Steve
removing seatbelts that are fitted by manufactorer is asking for trouble, if they are meant to be there then no getting away from it? after all dont all of us want out fmaily and freinds be safe? its a bit like removing the seatbelts from your car, if they were fited when the vehicle was built then oyu have to wear them
my question however what happens if the camper is a self conversion? i assume beofre 2007 is ok but what about after that year?
We asked the Department for Transport for their interpretation on the law as it applies to seatbelts fitted in motorhomes, this article gives the essence of the information that they gave us.
The information below relates to the fitting of seatbelts and the wearing of seatbelts by adults. There is specific legislation, introduced in 2006, concerning the carrying of children in vehicles. Rather than trying to present all the somewhat complicated regulations here, please see: www.dft.gov.uk/think/focusareas/children/childincar?page=FAQ
For vehicles built up to Oxtober 2007 there was no legal requirement to have seat belts fitted to side-facing seats or seats that make up the accommodation area in motor caravans.
Regulation 46 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended, states motor caravans first used on or after 1st April 1982 but before 1 October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and specified passenger seat (if any); and for motor caravans first used on or after 1st October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and any forward-facing front seat.
You can download a copy of the SI at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20011043.htm.
However, this did not preclude manufacturers fitting seat belts to forward facing or rearward facing seats within the accommodation area if they wished to do so.
Where seat belts are fitted they must be worn.
Seats in the rear of a campervan/motorhome did not, prior to October 2007, require seatbelts (whether forward, rearward or sideways facing) and it is not illegal to carry unrestrained passengers in them while travelling, providing the vehicle is not overloaded. It is not something we would recommend, however.
Although current seat belt wearing regulations do not prohibit carrying more passengers in vehicles than there are seat belts available, the police may prosecute drivers for carrying passengers in a manner that may injure someone.
We would advise that no-one should be carried in any unbelted seat in the rear of a motorhome.
An EU Directive (2005/40/EC) on the installation of seat belts required that from 20 October 2007 new vehicles have to have seat belts fitted on all seats except those seats intended solely for use when the vehicle is stationary.
The original advice given to us by the DfT was that, where seat belts are fitted, from May 2009, the seat belt wearing Directive would prevent more passengers being carried than there are seat belts in the rear of vehicles. This would have meant that from May 2009, in any vehicle of whatever age, where seat belts are fitted in the rear, more passengers may not be carried in the rear than there are seat belts available.
They now tell us:
"There will be no change in the regulations in May - our lawyers tell us that is not necessary because the existing regulations already adequately deal with the requirements of the seat belt wearing Directive. Our earlier view that we would need to change the regulations was mistaken."
"Seat belt wearing regulations cannot apply in seats where seat belts are not fitted. Therefore there can be no specific prohibition on using such seats even if other seats in the rear of the vehicle have seat belts fitted. Specifically, the regulations exempt passengers from using a seat belt if a seat belt is not "available". If all the seats with belts are already occupied, then seat belts are clearly not "available" and the remaining passengers can use the seats without belts."
The advisability of carrying unrestrained passengers is another matter, to quote the DfT spokesman:
'... the police can already act where people in the rear of any vehicle are considered to be carried in a dangerous manner because they are unrestrained. [Owners] should beware of unbelted passengers. In a crash, they can injure others in the vehicle ...'.
In addition to considering the legal and safety issues involved, owners who intend to carry passengers in unbelted seats must check with their insurers to confirm that this is acceptable to them.
Our advice is that, regardless of the letter of the law, all passengers should wear seat belts.
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