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Recent threads about gas on MHF have lead me to try and bring together our experience in dealing with gas supplies in the belief it may help other members. When we bought our current left-hooker we decided from the outset that our touring would be mainly in Europe and typically for 2 - 3 months per tour although it has sometimes been more (but never less!). What follows was very much dictated by our need to be able to buy supplies whenever needed no matter where we were; this is far from the only way of dealing with gas supplies and others may wish to add to or comment upon our way of doing it.
We had no option but to start from scratch - the previous owner of our Chausson, imported from Germany, had cut off the regulator and connected a piece of rubber hose directly to the copper pipe using just a jubilee clip. Not even a regulator in sight.
We considered fixed Gaslow cylinders; there's a significant investment up front to set against the cheaper LPG, and a very restricted choice of refilling points in Spain. At the current 1€/Kg for propane in Spain you can buy a lot of gas for the cost of installing fixed cylinders; if you only tour in the UK the sums may be different and there are, I'm told, a good network of filling stations. We decided against this option and went for the more common 'off the shelf' cylinders.
First decision - butane or propane was a no-brainer for us as we were likely to out when the weather was colder and butane doesn't become gas as the temperature heads towards freezing. So propane it was.
Second decision was the regulator. For everyone this is dictated by the jets fitted to the appliances in our m/h's. Older vehicles will either be jetted for propane at 37mBar or butane at 28mBar; newer vehicles will be jetted at 30mBar for both propane and butane. Ours had a large label in the gas locker saying 30mBar which was rather fortunate as it gives greater options.
So, having acquired a 30mBar regulator, it needed fitting to the copper pipe; it is NOT good practice just to connect using a rubber hose and a jubilee clip - a proper terminator is needed for the copper pipe and the low pressure 'rubber' hose is then connected to that with the other end connected to the outlet side of the regulator (which should have a proper termination to take rubber hose).
Next came a Gaslow automatic change-over head which connects to two gas bottles, enabling the user to select which bottle the gas should be taken from initially and will then change to the other bottle when the first bottle is empty. The head connects directly to the inlet side of regulator and to the cylinders......
We have flexible stainless steel high pressure hoses from Gaslow to connect to our cylinders. These hoses terminate in a standard 'Calor' fitting i.e. they will connect directly to the small Calor Butane cylinders. Although these hoses are also available with a Calor propane fitting we chose the butane option as they can then be connected to a wide variety of Gaslow adaptors (including one for Calor propane). These adaptors enable the use of a wide variety cylinders, including ones purchased elsewhere in Europe - we bought a selection of adaptors and they have served us well over the past 5 years.
It should be noted here that some regular replacement is required of flexible hoses and the washers used to connect the various parts together. The stainless steel high pressure hoses are rated for 20 years (no less than they should be at the price!) but their 'rubber' alternatives have a much shorter life as do the rubber connecting washers. For our part, 2 - 3 years is the life of these items, not forgetting the low pressure hose between the regulator and the copper pipework. Not a bad idea either to check that all joints remain tightly screwed, say annually. Better to be safe than sorry. Where joints have been made for the first time, test with leak detecting spray that you can buy from plumbers merchants - it's cheap, so use Fairy liquid at your peril if you must!
Only you know how competent you are to undertake work on gas in your motorhome. If you feel uneasy about it, get your dealer to do it - there's potentially a big downside if you get it wrong.
Our first cylinder for travel to Europe was a 907 Camping Gaz for the simple reason that we could buy it in the UK to take with us while we decided on which French cylinder to adopt. Camping Gaz is expensive by comparison with other gas but it's readily available everywhere, including throughout Spain (see below). Once in France we decided upon a 5 Kg. propane Le Cube and brought one of our Gaslow adaptors into service. Gas in France is available everywhere, especially from garage forecourtsand there are a multitude of brands/cylinder types. Initial deposits for cylinders are much lower than in the UK - our latest cylinder (read on) required only a 10€ deposit. The current price for Le Cube refills is about 15€ for either 5 Kg propane or 6 Kg butane. Note that French cylinders do not have different fittings for butane and propane as in the UK so be sure you are buying the correct gas.
Onwards now to Spain where the choice of cylinder is somewhat limited although the gas is cheap because it's subsidised. Repsol is the most widely available gas in Spain but you have to sign a contract which involves a home inspection; bottles are however, on sale in flea markets, other motorhomers and other unofficial sources. The alternative, our choice, was a Cepsa propane cylinder holding 11 Kg (current refill price 11€). Our 'jumbo' Gaslow adaptor was now pressed into service - gas bottles in Spain, except Camping Gaz, have the same fitting whether propane or butane, Cepsa or Repsol, so again, be sure of what you are buying.
Various regions of Spain have very differing laws about sales of gas and Cepsa is totally absent in some regions including Catalonia; in these regions Repsol will usually only be available from Repsol depots or for home delivery. In other regions, for example Andalucia and Navarra, Cepsa is widely available from camp sites, garages and Cepsa depots. This is an irritation but we've learned to manage our gas supplies to cope i.e. always enter Spain with a good supply of French gas. Typically we use about 5 Kg/month, including the BBQ, so it's not really a problem. Note that you will now see Repsol cylinders on sale in France - the top fitting is different to the ones in Spain and they presumably cannot be exchanged there.
The Le Cube/Cepsa propane arragement served us well until this autumn when we discovered a 10 Kg 'own brand' cylinder of propane in Intermarché with a standard Calor butane fitting as above. The Gaslow adaptor serving the Le Cube was removed and the Cube traded in for the new cylinder which was then screwed directly onto the low pressure hose. Why? 10 Kg means less frequent cylinder replenishment and refills cost about 17.50€ against the 15€ for the 5 Kg Le Cube.
Hopefully this latest arragement will serve us well for the foreseeable future and, if we do any short tours in the UK, we can just screw Gaslow propane adaptors onto the existing low pressure pipes and put Calor propane cylinders into the gas locker.
Views and suggestions from other members would be welcome and I would be pleased to try and answer any questions members may have arising from the above.
Ray
______________________________________________________________ Not all who wander are lost - J R Tolkien
I go to France/Spain every year in winter and carry only two 13kg propane cylinders. This year I came back to GB in May with a full cylinder after spending nearly 5 months abroad. I wild camp sometimes but spend most of my time on hook-up when I use the electric heating on the Truma 6002 or a small oil filled radiator. I only use gas for cooking with so cannot understand the need to go to all that trouble with "foreign " cylinders. I can only assume that you wild camp all the time if you require so much gas. Moch.
Very informative post about a very confusing issue.
You said,
"The Le Cube/Cepsa propane arragement served us well until this autumn when we discovered a 10 Kg 'own brand' cylinder of propane in Intermarché with a standard Calor butane fitting as above. The Gaslow adaptor serving the Le Cube was removed and the Cube traded in for the new cylinder which was then screwed directly onto the low pressure hose. Why? 10 Kg means less frequent cylinder replenishment and refills cost about 17.50€ against the 15€ for the 5 Kg Le Cube."
I thought in a different post you said the Intermarche bottle had a standard calor Propane fitting, or am I getting confused?
We use calor propane on a Truma Secumotion. If I could get an Intermarche bottle that would fit on I would be very happy.
The Intermarche own-brand cylinders, whether butane or propane, have the same thread as the small Calor BUTANE cylinders. Our flexible hoses will screw directly onto this fitting.
When we want to use Calor propane (in the UK) we just use a Gaslow converter - these are readily available at most dealers or from Gaslow direct.
Ray
______________________________________________________________ Not all who wander are lost - J R Tolkien
Everyone has their own style of camping and hence the amount of gas varies. We shower, do washing up etc. all in our motorhome - we (and probably you) have paid a lot of money for the onboard facilities!
There's also the question of what you do should you lose gas as a result of a leak?
Ray
______________________________________________________________ Not all who wander are lost - J R Tolkien
Changing bottles from one make to another, different shops and distributors, storing them, lifting them in and out, all sorts of different pigtails and adaptors.
Made me quite faint reading it all.
Until I realised that as we have Gaslow refillable - absolutely none of it applies to us.
Pull into garage, look at nozzle, select one of two adaptors or none, connect nozzle, fill up, pay (not much, very cheap) - drive away.
Gaslow sounds great, but we manage quite nicely without the expense of setting it up.
Spending the majority of our motorhoming time in France and Spain we have one French 13kg propane and one Spanish 11kg butane with appropriate regulators in the same locker - switching between cylinders as required.
Just use the bottles according to where we are going to be when one runs out and replace it at the first opportunity.
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