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We will soon by buying another motorhome (used). The 'vans on our shortlist seem to be based on the 616 chassis (a couple are Iveco), some are automatic (if I remember correctly the Sprintshift was not fitted to the 616) and some are manual.
I am trying to get some idea as to how these 6 ton motorhomes perform.
Our last motorhome was a 2001 Knaus 608H (coachbuilt), Fiat 2.8Jtd, manual transmission, 3850kg gross and we did 36000 miles in 36 months - and in truth found the performance to be more that acceptable.
We weighed the 'van a couple of times and it was about 3600kg.
It could 'cruise' at 75 very easily giving about 19mpg. Top speed was about 85mph if pushed but I considered 70 to 75 to be a sensible maximum.
If we kept it to 60 however we could get about 23mpg. When on the open road I tended to keep it between 60 & 65mph on motorways and maybe 55 to 60mph on A roads.
Even on the longest, steepest uphill motorway sections we could maintain 65mph (which I thought was pretty good).
As for acceleration I thought it was pretty respectable off the mark and also pretty good in the midrange (40 to 60) - acceleration only really dropped off once over 65, at which point you had to 'wait a while'.
I realise that we are looking to buy a vehicle that weighs almost twice as much and as such much greater consideration needs to be given to vehicle dynamics.
What is a comfortable cruising speed?
Can a 'sensible' speed be maintained when on long uphill roads?
How much performance is lost with the automatic compared to the manual?
Expect cruising speed (comfortable) to be 55-60
Top Speed 85 (Shaking)
MPG 20-25
As for hill climbing, the 416's do this very well as they have small wheels and tyres (195/70/15)
Not sure about the Final drive ratio of the 6 series Manual and Automatic but I do know they have bigger wheels and tyres.
Our Sprinter 3.0 has a manual 6 speed box and whilst it cruises much smoother and quieter than our previous 416 with Sprintshift, it cannot climb hills with such ease. That said it is a 5 ton.
As for hill climbing, the 416's do this very well as they have small wheels and tyres (195/70/15)
Not sure about the Final drive ratio of the 6 series Manual and Automatic but I do know they have bigger wheels and tyres.
Though they have different sized wheels and tyres, I would have thought this has been one of the first variables (along with engine size) that has been accounted for through a different final drive ratio. If you look through the specs for Ford Transit and Iveco Daily, there is a miriad of different ratios to acheive the optimum compromise between performance and economy for each variant.
Ours is a 316 5-speed torque-converter automatic. 'Only' weighs 3,800 kg max. and goes like a 'train'. Never had a problem on hills and the acceleration is very good. Normally, I cruise around 55-60 mph and get 25 mpg overall. Last year we had to come back from southern France in a hurry and it cruised very comfortably at 70+ mph. Consumption fell to around 21 mpg. Once a 'cruising speed' has been achieved, the Merc auto box operates with 95% lock-up. I.e. the torque converter is effectively disabled to minimise power loss and wasted fuel consumption.
I know you are considering a larger, heavier van and performance will be less sprightly than my B630, but remember that the 2.7 litre 5-pot engine was the largest fitted to the Sprinter series of that generation. It is a pretty powerful engine.
By comparison, does/did your Knaus have the 127 PS or 146 PS (bhp) version of the 2.8JTD? If the former, then the Merc 2.7 output is quite a bit higher at 156 PS
Ours is a 316 5-speed torque-converter automatic. 'Only' weighs 3,800 kg max. and goes like a 'train'. Never had a problem on hills and the acceleration is very good. Normally, I cruise around 55-60 mph and get 25 mpg overall. Last year we had to come back from southern France in a hurry and it cruised very comfortably at 70+ mph. Consumption fell to around 21 mpg. Once a 'cruising speed' has been achieved, the Merc auto box operates with 95% lock-up. I.e. the torque converter is effectively disabled to minimise power loss and wasted fuel consumption.
I know you are considering a larger, heavier van and performance will be less sprightly than my B630, but remember that the 2.7 litre 5-pot engine was the largest fitted to the Sprinter series of that generation. It is a pretty powerful engine.
By comparison, does/did your Knaus have the 127 PS or 146 PS (bhp) version of the 2.8JTD? If the former, then the Merc 2.7 output is quite a bit higher at 156 PS
Philip
Yes ours was the 127 PS output. I realise that the Merc 5 cyclinder has another 30 PS and more importantly more torque but the realistic 'rolling' wieght of the motorhomes we are considering is 5500+ kg
______________________________________________________________ Everyone is entitled to my opinion!
Ours is a 316 5-speed torque-converter automatic. 'Only' weighs 3,800 kg max. and goes like a 'train'. Never had a problem on hills and the acceleration is very good. Normally, I cruise around 55-60 mph and get 25 mpg overall. Last year we had to come back from southern France in a hurry and it cruised very comfortably at 70+ mph. Consumption fell to around 21 mpg. Once a 'cruising speed' has been achieved, the Merc auto box operates with 95% lock-up. I.e. the torque converter is effectively disabled to minimise power loss and wasted fuel consumption.
I know you are considering a larger, heavier van and performance will be less sprightly than my B630, but remember that the 2.7 litre 5-pot engine was the largest fitted to the Sprinter series of that generation. It is a pretty powerful engine.
By comparison, does/did your Knaus have the 127 PS or 146 PS (bhp) version of the 2.8JTD? If the former, then the Merc 2.7 output is quite a bit higher at 156 PS
Philip
Again the final drive of the 316 is different from the 4 and 6 series. Furthermore the tyre and wheel sizes on th 3 series are bigger than 4's. This can be seen by the much lower revs of a 3 series @ 60 mph than a 4.
The 2.7 litre MB 5 Cylinder was specially tweeked for the Sprinters and is almost bullet proof. Sound engine, hope the V6 lives up to the same.
We went from a Transit 130 bhp which was 3,500 kgs this went well enough and gave us about 28 MPG.
We now have a 5,000 Kg van with a 3.0 Fiat. This is much slower on the long steep hills like in France than the Transit was, but some of this is due to having very tall gearing (1,900 rpm is 60 Mph in 6th, the Transit was 2,250 at 60). I find it pulls better if you keep the speed up to 70 Mph but then the MPG is down to sub 20.
The Merc 2.7's do have lower gearing though, meaning a slower cruising speed but good hill climbing.
I think that with the bigger heavier van you will find once you are cruising it will be much the same as what you already have but it will not be as quick on the twisty country type roads.
I don't know if my input will be of much use as our van is based on the 2009 Merc 3000 ltre Sprinter. What I can say is that because it has the auto box with cruise control. I can just set the speed and the van does the rest, moving up and down the gears as and when necessary With our Smart and trailer we are near 7000kg, no idea what the MPG is as we haven't done sufficient miles yet to make an accurate assessment.
Wobby
______________________________________________________________ You donīt stop laughing because you grow old,
The 5 pot Merc because it has smaller pistons can rev a tad faster than comparable 4 pot engines. Hence more power (P=torque X revs). Its the same reason Merc have gone to 6 cylinders, but you have to rev them to get the power out.
Ours is 5 pot 2.7 Merc and 5.99 tonnes. Its comfortable to drive, smooth and will cruise hapilly above the national speed limit if you want to pay for my fuel. Otherwise we do 90 KPH (56MPH) which is relaxed.
But never expect the nimble performance of a Panel van from a tardis like this.
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