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Whilst I respect and understand where you are coming from Barry and Sue, the fact of the matter is that TFL congestion charge is actually costing the council tax payers of London.
The reduction in traffic is so great that the projections done prior to introducing the charge were so wildly inacurate that the scheme does not pay for itself as predicted. I believe that this is more likely the cause of the lowering of congestion, not that I don't think what you said was valid.
So the tax-payers of London will need to decide wheather they think that subsidising the system for 'improvements' to their environment is worthwhile.
This information comes from a colleuge that works within the TFL and I trust the source totally.
I suppose what I am saying is I wonder how the government will subsidise the M6 toll?
The following members of MHF thanked Paulway for this posting
I don't disagree with anything you say, Paul. It confirms all my views about the supposed "congestion" charge. So many local businesses are cheesed off with what's happened now in London, that many are just moving away. Residents hate living in the zone. And now the bu88er's seizing even more of London's streets (Kensington & Chelsea)!
Irrespective of the arguments surrounding "congestion" (totally bogus in Livingstone's case, as Traffic Police have confirmed) the principle of one local representative seizing local roads and imposing his own tax to pass along the public highway is utterly wrong.
The streets of London are not the Mayor's, to bar others from using (by imposing financial penalties), any more than the Mayor of our area should seize a local junction here and impose a charge on those going through it. If the Congestion Charge is good for Central London, it must be good in principle for every area of the country. But the principle is wholly wrong and I can't believe he's getting away with it.
Be warned - many councils have gazed with envious eyes at what Livingstone is doing in London, and more to the point, what he is getting away with.
"Free passage along the highway"? Only if you pay Livingstone.
(I'd like to see the highways subsidy from general vehicle taxation removed from Livingstone's budget - now that would focus his devious little mind!)
______________________________________________________________ Barry
Don't use a big word when a diminutive abbreviation will suffice.
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Totally agree with you BarryandSue, I suppose that I was trying to flag up the implications for the Council Tax payers for the area's that these people are thinking of bringing in congestion tax, sorry charge. They make a big thing about those living inside the area being exempt, but they are not because they pay for it in their Council Tax.
I understand that Livingstone is trying to extend the area of charging to outer London now and I have also been told that he is trying to get the whole of the inner M25 area into charging, now that will involve a lot of council tax payers and he will get his tax one way or another!!
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Don't talk to me about the M6 toll... Classes 3m tall motor home as Van class - not car, apparently the tolling computer does it on height but when challenged nobody could tell me the basis of how it is done!
Outrageous... I had major sense of humour failure.
David
I know this is a very old post, but I had this happen to me today. My VW Westfalia is private car when it uses the Dartford River Crossing, and the same into Wales. There's nothing to say otherwise when you join the thing.
I'd just made a collection of the M54 and thought the three junctions to my Mother was worth the £2.50, shock horror, £7.00.
I'm going to write. Anyone want to spend some money on a protest, I thought a Saturday afternoon all queue where they're only using one pay booth and offer £2.50 and a name and address. Get a few cameras there. Might be worth it.
______________________________________________________________ John
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When the toll road first opened I thought the toll of £3.50 was worth it as the real cost of running my car (RAC figures, not mine) was 53p per mile. With a 9 mile saving over the real M6 that comes out at £4.77p saved. As the real cost of running my MH will be way in excess of 53ppm (not parts per million!) the £7 cost may still be worth it. Its all a bit like the thread on additional charges for a towed car on some sites - if you don't want to pay it don't use it. There will certainly be more toll roads, the M6 up to Preston is already under discussion and planning.
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Don't forget the partitioning between fixed costs on the one hand, such as capital outlay/depreciation, insurance, vehicle tax, and running discretionary costs such as fuel, tyres, etc. Every mile is not 53p per mile if you see what I mean.
Dave
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When the toll road first opened I thought the toll of £3.50 was worth it as the real cost of running my car (RAC figures, not mine) was 53p per mile. With a 9 mile saving over the real M6 that comes out at £4.77p saved. As the real cost of running my MH will be way in excess of 53ppm (not parts per million!) the £7 cost may still be worth it. Its all a bit like the thread on additional charges for a towed car on some sites - if you don't want to pay it don't use it.
I'm not sure that was my point though. (A) When custom and practice elsewhere is that these vehicles are treated as private cars, then some better signing is due for the purpose of informed choice. (B) The smaller ones, like mine, ARE private cars, there's nothing else in my drive.
As it is I was very put off and will avoid their services in future simply, perhaps only, because I feel I was shafted and I don't want to do business with people like that. The road was so empty by-the-way that a little customer encouragement rather than discouragement might do them some good.
______________________________________________________________ John
The following members of MHF thanked neverrememberit for this posting
welshman.. if you are coming north on the M5 from the south of Wales you will avoid it.
I use the A5 to go south and enjoy a trouble free, traffic free pleasant drive.
just a word of warning though... there is one stretch of the A5 around the midlands that has a fixed camera approx every 200 yds. don't speed
______________________________________________________________ roi from North Wales
home is where you park it
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Perhaps I should have said that I use the M6 Toll every time we travel south purely because of memories of the jams and stop/start and roadworks and horrendous delays on the real M6 north of Birmingham. It sometimes took us well over an hour (and felt like two hours) to do about 10 miles. For us, and maybe only for us judging by the tenor of some people's feelings, the convenience and time saved far outweighs the cost - a bit like the cost of LPG tanks against the inconvenience of cylinders.
Thanks for the comment about the split in fixed and non-fixed costs, Dave, but even with that I will still use it. I even used toll autoroutes in France although I much prefer the German non toll autobahns!
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