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rodders1

Hi folks. My First post on the site and an appeal -can anyone advise me?
I'm very close to our first motorhome purchase. I'll be going to Germany in a couple of days for this.

The motorhome we want is 3years old with 50,000km on the clock.
It is advertised as 16% vat idenificationable?? which presumably means I don't need to pay the German Tax. Or do I need to pay then reclaim somehow after arriving back in the uk? The dealer quoted me an export price as net.

As it is 3 years old it seems that there is no vat to pay in the uk.

Is this really true?? No 16% Vat in Germany as is it being exported and no vat in the UK as it is over 6months old?

Many Thanks
Rodders1

bognormike · Moderator

"It is advertised as 16% vat idenificationable"?

what? Presumably a new word has been created in the translation here?
I would have thought that the van would be for sale net. Over 6 months no VAT to pay on exports, as you have assumed.

It may, however, be up for sale by a VAT registered trader in Germany, and VAT is charged. In the UK (and I think on VAT this is europe wide), most dealers sell used vans under the VAT margin scheme, whereby the VAT is due on the margin made between buying & selling. Motorhomes & commercial vehicles can be sold as subject to VAT, because if they are used in the business of the original buyer, the buyer would have claimed VAT when it was bought, and then must charge VAT on the sale. Perhaps this is the explanation here - maybe the sellers are a hire fleet? It could also explain the 50,000km on the clock - a big number for a 3 year old motorhome? Be a bit wary & check the history if you go ahead. Not sure about them zero rating the VAT, though.

gaspode · Moderator

Hi rodders1

If buying in Germany from a dealer you pay 16% tax which is not refundable or reclaimable unless you are a registered dealer in which case you could claim it back against the normal way in the UK on re-sale of the vehicle. German dealers will not sell to you "VAT reclaimable" unless you can demonstrate your valid UK VAT registration number to incliude with their tax return. Having said that, it is very unusual for a German dealer to quote a tax exclusive price for export (except to a bone-fide dealer) and I would guess that the price given to you is an inclusive price. If buying privately then of course no tax is applicable either in Germany or in the UK. You can only reclaim the German tax paid if you have ALSO paid VAT in the UK at 17.5% - applicable to "new means of transport" only.
Check again with your dealer, I'm sure the price you're being quoted will be inclusive of German tax.

eddieo

I think bognormike has hit the nail on the head - sounds like ex hire to me. 50000 miles in 3 years! probably extremely heavy use - possibly equivalent to 10 years private use? ( a wild guess here ). maybe ok if quality van Burstner or similar. But approach with extreme caution - if it sounds to good the be true then it most probably is.

rodders1

Thanks folks. Sorry it has taken a while to post up a thank you.
I have just had a hectic week and spent 3 days dashing up and down the autobahns. But I've done it! After many years of waiting I've bought a motorhome.
You have all been exactly right! Many Thanks. By the way The "Mwst" means "Mehr Wert Steuer" i.e. VAT and it can only be removed if you are vat registered. I was confused by the web pages that said VAT was removable. It seems that they offer this on vans up to about 5 years old. But only if you are vat registered. So not for me!
Well the vans were hammered. All ex rental. Apparently he bought about 50 and is down to the last 5. And I could not match the odometers with van id numbers with interiors from the internet ads. All a muddle really and no van had even been cleaned.
They were 2004 Euramobile 665HS with rear U shaped lounge. The really disappointing thing for me was that on closer inspection it seemd that it wasn't so much maltreatment, rather the vans hadn't stood up to wear and tear due to poor materials in the interior. he dropped the price a lot as I was walking away.
Well I went on to another dealer who had a 2001 model 665HS on the older fiat cab. All cleaned and had been removed from the forecourt waiting for me. It was 2 years as a hire vehicle then privately owned. It was cheaper and in great condition and whats more the materials were much better. I'll be confident that it will look just as good in another 5years. It was a no brainer really. I knew as soon as I saw it. It's got a double floor and all my surf boards etc will go under the floor rather than on the roof. (And tons more space for the missus's shoes and the baby gear too!)
Well I learned a few things. 1) Get a GPS navigator. It was my first time on continental roads and the GPS that I had borrowed made it safe and easy. 2) Be flexible and prepared to change plans and visit as many dealers as poss. I narrowed things down to just 3 dealers to save time. Fortunately the 2nd dealer was good and the deal was done. But not before I had to go to an internet cafe to look up other options. 3) Be prepared to be disappointed. Things may not be as good as you expect when you see them. 4) Contrary to some things I have read, haggling a bit is possible. 5) These forums are invaluable.

Well thanks again. It has all worked out well and I'm really pleased. Back next week to pick it up. Not nearly as difficult to do as I thought (so far).

Rodders1

656

Quote ~Rodders

3) Be prepared to be disappointed. Things may not be as good as you expect when you see them.

How true this is. I looked at about 200+ vans and all the ones in my price range - £26K +/- £2k were in the main horrible. The one decent one I saw - a Bessacarr 445 - went while I was thinking about it. I went to every dealer ina 100 mile radius and felt in the main that they were over priced. I even looked at one from Ebay that was quite local and it turned out to be a ringer - VIN plate had been replaced and the engine number different from that on the V5. I smelt a rat when the seller said he would bring it to me to view and would not give me his home address or land line number, as he did not want a lot of calls at every hour of the day. He could not even remember where it was MOT'd. I passed his details etc to my mate who is a BIB. You really need to check everything on the V5 and van when buying. My mate HPI'd it and it showed as clear. I guess he bought an unregistered write off and then rang a stolen one. By the way, all the keys fitted OK and the locker key fitted every lock

gaspode · Moderator

Hi Rodders1

Well done, count yourself in as a member of the "importers club". If you need any advice about registering/MOT etc, just shout. Ex-hire vans can be good buys provided they have been well maintained and cared for. One advantage is you don't have to go round removing all the botched DIY efforts and the dreaded stickers!

Can you post the names of the dealers who were good/bad, helps us all to avoid or frequent them in future.