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GeorgeTelford

Hi Gerhard

I said they dont have drop out holes, the bit I read said none and why ie the CO Fumes, it didnt specifically mention the gas locker, according to UK rules the interior as to have drop out holes though, so it is still outside of UK Regs. BTW I did mention that the ~German regs were more stringent.

Germany

6. The gas system must be checked by a certified expert every two years and after every modification.

UK

We have "regs" but they only have to be followed under a limited set of scenario's. By anyone who can read and follow the rules.

I totally agree with Arc that Litigation could be a factor, it just doesnt make it a law as such.

George

arcsystems

Aha now we are getting some facts on German regulations and very similar to our British Standards.
I have just found a note in BS5482 which states; Particular care has been taken with the object of overcoming special problems with ventilation of motor caravans. Reference should be made to the current Motor Vehicles (construction and use) Regulation.
There is a strong move toward the 'who to blame' attitude in this country as recent tragic events and subsequent court cases have shown. Getting it right is now the only option and the "that's near enough"or "I thought that was correct" attitude does not cut any ice when the proverbial hits the fan.
Your question George on selling German vans over here is partly answered by the existence of fairly equal regulation in both Country's. However to be sold over here in general they must meet NCC approval, their criteria is wholly based on British Standards and other relevant regulation, in fact they are party to it. It matters not if these criteria are ignored unless something goes wrong and that is when the courts will decide who is to blame. It would seem there are those that put their head in the sand and hope for the best with what they think they know. Personally I will go out of my way to make sure I know for sure before I start and certainly before stating 'facts' on here.

Dishmop

[quote:b8f5afe57b]However to be sold over here in general they must meet NCC approval[/quote:b8f5afe57b]

That only applies if the imprter/seller wants to be able stick a label on the van saying that it meets NCC standards.

The van does not have to meet that approval before it can be sold.

As I said before, I can buy a van, convert it and sell it. It wouldnt even have to have an MOT if it was less than 3 years old. However, it it blew up, it would be up to somebody esle to decide itf the cause of the explosion was my fault because of a dangerous installation or because the owner was negligent.

GeorgeTelford

Hi Arc

Similar is not the same. Send one of ours over there and it will fail, they send theirs over here no probs because we dont check.

Most motorhomes are not NCC approved. A lot dont even have flame resistant/retardent cushions and materials.

BTW its not nice shooting the messenger I am one of those saying it doesnt meet regs and as you have just confirmed, it doesnt.

See also "The Gerhard 240v socket in a showeroom Question" its seen on several imported Motorhomes and caravans.

George

Brambles

Hi guys, I don't want to get embroiled in your discussions as I am enjoying reading all the opnions, views and facts on the sidelines.

However regarding power sockest in the shower rooms, on my motorhome it has one fitted but is disconnected from the mains wiring (cable is cut and insulated outside the cubicle behind a panel). I wonder how many other imported m/homes appear to have sockets but are in fact disconnected in the UK.
Jon.

arcsystems

[quote:be1dbed9ba="GeorgeTelford"]Hi Arc

Similar is not the same. Send one of ours over there and it will fail,

[/quote:be1dbed9ba]

Oh yes George this is very true, however believe me this is a completly different story and has nothing to do with gas safety or any other type of safety. You could build to any standard you like and it would still fail in Germany.

GeorgeTelford

Hi Jon

I wonder how many are not disconnected? The one in My Hobby caravan was not and several people I have spoke to about it, theirs are not disconnected. (were not at the Time)

What really amazes me is when its ignored in Motorhome magazine write ups?

Here is a list of dodgy area's In motorhomes that I have discovered so Far all the following are on Professional builds not Self Builds.

Gas pipes not correct grade

Gas pipes not correct Type ie Flexible were should be copper and copper were should be flexible.

Gas cylinders under beds

Gas bottles not in sealed safe area or fire proof box

No drop out holes

Drop out holes over exhausts (eberspacher, gennies etc)

Mains wiring (flex) running around mattress is rear permenant bed

12v switch in bathroom

240V sockets in bathroom

Halogen light not of correct IP being used in bathrooms (loads of these)

Batteries without proper venting.

leisure battery actually a standard battery with Vent caps, Zig X7 charger in same under bed locker

Many batteries with fuses inside same area, one even provided a unsealed light switch in the bed box to iluminate the under bed (and possibly cause explosion with unvented battery if anything was wrong)

Earth Neutral bonding at the distrbution board (RCD ~and mcb Box)

Unbonded conductors like steel sinks everywhere.

Mains and 12v wires thru same conduit

mains and 12v wiring going straight thru (ruff drilled as well!) ply without grommet or protection.

Wiring run thru gas locker

Chargers and invertors IN the battery box.

Many will not supply Regulator for gas bottle and leave a note/instructions that it should be commisioned and inspected by a professional.

Probably more I have not tried listing before, anyone else spotted any professional bloopers?

What always amazes me is that the selfbuilds I see, have usually got less wrong that the professional vans.

George