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Hi everybody,
Have booked into La Manga Campsite on 19 Dec 07 and crossing Dover Calais. Would like to avoid the toll roads if possible. Can anyone recommend a good route with stopovers. Will be towing a car on an A Frame.
Thanks Ian

Don Madge

[quote="lookback"]Hi everybody,
Have booked into La Manga Campsite on 19 Dec 07 and crossing Dover Calais. Would like to avoid the toll roads if possible. Can anyone recommend a good route with stopovers. Will be towing a car on an A Frame.
Thanks Ian[/quote]

Hi Ian,

The more experienced winter travellers usually take the route down the west coast of France and the across central Spain.

A winter route we have used many times over the years is Channel Port, Rouen, Tours, Bordeaux, San Sebastian, Vitoria, Burgos, Madrid, Albcete, Murcia and La Manga.

Using this route avoids the high ground in France and also the bandit country between the French border, Barcelona and Valencia.

In Spain the route is dual carriage way all of the way. You go over the Puetro do Somosierra at 1404 metres. There's no bends on the climb it's a very well engineered road. The Spanish are on the ball with the snow clearing, we have seen snowploughs positioned along the road before the snow has started to fall. If you are unfortunate to get caught up in a heavy snow fall you will not be alone just stay with the trucks and the road will be cleared ASAP. Don't use the side/minor roads on high ground because they are the last to be cleared after heavy snow falls.

If your van is not winterised make sure you have some water in containers inside the van with you.

We have been travelling in winter time for a good many years and have never been stuck in a snow drift, come close a few times, lucky, I'd put it down to forward planning and experience.

Don't take too much notice of the dramatic stories you hear from some winter travellers, the UK motorhome fraternity thrives on rumour and speculation.

Enjoy your trip, I remember our first winter away, it was a very rewarding experience.

If you want advice on overnight stops let me know your daily mileage and whether you use Aires or sites and I'll work out some for you.

If I can be of further help get back to me.

Safe travelling

Don

namder

hogan

Stops the water freezing,as its inside the van,

statenisland

Good morning Don,
I was interested in your reply to the request for information regarding a route to southern Spain, as we are proposing a similar trip in mid November.
I appreciate your motorhoming experience but having toured Spain by car, I would have thought the coastal route would be warmer, less chance of snow and on the level. Is this way to be avoided because of your comment re 'bandit country'. What should one be looking out for? Any comments on wild camping on the way through Spain?
In France we have planned to use Aires and France Passion but the latter is rarely mentioned on MHF. Am I missing something with regard to these overnighting locations? Are they not as good as they seem on paper?
Finally my partner, Jan, wants to see the Spanish Christmas celebrations which we understand take place on 7th January- has anybody had any experience?
Thanks in advance for any information or comments.
Brian

ralph-dot

Chascass

That was very use full reading, one thought, if you have solar panels, do you have any maintenance other than keeping them clear of snow etc.

Don Madge

[quote="statenisland"]Good morning Don,
I was interested in your reply to the request for information regarding a route to southern Spain, as we are proposing a similar trip in mid November.
I appreciate your motorhoming experience but having toured Spain by car, I would have thought the coastal route would be warmer, less chance of snow and on the level. Is this way to be avoided because of your comment re 'bandit country'. What should one be looking out for? Any comments on wild camping on the way through Spain?
In France we have planned to use Aires and France Passion but the latter is rarely mentioned on MHF. Am I missing something with regard to these overnighting locations? Are they not as good as they seem on paper?
Finally my partner, Jan, wants to see the Spanish Christmas celebrations which we understand take place on 7th January- has anybody had any experience?
Thanks in advance for any information or comments.
Brian[/quote]

Hi Brian,

We have been travelling in Spain since 1971 and have done the coastal and inland routes many times.

This is just our opinion but the coastal route can get very congested and it's along this stretch of road that more problems seem to happen. Also there are tolls to pay on the Autopista (motorway).

If you are just pottering along then I would suggest this route but if you want to get to your destination ASAP I would suggest the inland route.

The ring road is now complete around Madrid, in the past the city could be a problem if you caught it at the wrong time. It does not help having four rush hours in the working day. 8O

We would not free park over night on the coastal route but on the inland route we have done it quite a lot over the years. We often used the service stations or restaurants just off the Autovia where usually there are very large car/truck parks.

It's all down to personal choice, if you take reasonable precautions you should not have any problems.

We will not be wintering in Spain/Portugal again. We tried it earlier this year after a break of five years and the popular coastal places in both countries were overwhelmed with motorhomes. We prefer the quieter places.

It will be interesting to hear other motorhomers views on the subject. :D

Safe travelling

Don

Don Madge

Brian,

This is a summary of our trip down to Conil de la Frontera, Spain in
Jan 2007. Anybody considering a trip south for the winter might find
this info useful..

We used the Dover/Calais crossing, as we have a 275 mile journey to
Dover we have found in the past a Saturday is a quieter day to do the
journey. Also you get a truck free day on Sunday, your first day in
France.

Sat. 13th Jan.
We had a very uneventful trip to Dover where on arrival we found the
ferry was delayed for two hours. As we planned to spend the night on
Calais docks it was not really a problem except we arrived at
midnight instead of 22.00hrs. We stayed the night on the "unbooked
crossing" car park. There were about 6 other vans there. It was
fairly quiet night as not too many trucks are on the move Sat night
Sun morning.

FRANCE
Sun. 14th Jan.
A very good refuelling place at Calais is the Elf filling station
just off Junc 3 as you are leaving the port complex. Take the last
exit of the roundabout and the Elf station is on the right. We paid
€1.02 for a litre of diesel.

We travelled 363 miles and stayed on the aire at St Maure which is
about 20 miles south of Tours on the N10. We used the Peage
(motorway) from Calais to Tours. A16, A28 to Rouen, Le Mans and
Tours. Totals tolls were €49.90. We have been using the aire at St
Maure for many years and it is usually very quiet at night, if you
don't want an early call park well away from the "bottle bank".

Mon 15th Jan.
Today we had a 320 mile trip to St Jean de Luz were we stayed at
Camping Larrouleta (€15.50 per night) for two nights, we like to have
a day off after three days of driving. The site has wifi connection
€5 for 30 min.

A very good refuelling point is the Champion hypermarket which is 14
miles south of St Maure on the N10, we paid €0.97 for a litre of
diesel.

The N10 is now nearly all dual carriageway to Bordeaux. We did use
the Peage from Chatellerault north to Poitiers south at a cost of
€5.70 we think it's well worthwhile it to avoid the hassle of going
through the towns.

When you reach the Bordeaux ring road follow the signs for Bassin
D'Arcachon and Bayonne A 63. I would suggest you stay on the A63 to
the Spanish boarder as the N10 gets very congested going through
Bayonne, Biarritz and St Jean de Luz.

At the Leclerc hypermarket at St Jean de Luz diesel was Euro 0.99 per
litre. In France diesel prices varied from €1.16 on the "Peage" to
€0.97 at the super/hypermarkets. Extreme caution should be exercised
when refuelling at Super/Hypermarkets as some of them have a very
restricted manoeuvring area.

In France the Autoroutes (Motorways) are signed in Blue the N routes
are signed in green. The Autoroute is mainly a toll road and the toll
sections are clearly signed "PEAGE". Tolls can be paid by cash (€) or
the "Plastic". The tolls can work out very expensive over long
distances.

Many people use the word "PEAGE" when referring to toll roads
throughout Europe.

SPAIN

Wed 17th Jan.
We travelled 270 miles to La Cabrera, which is 60 km north of Madrid.
We travelled via the A63 peage (€2.20) into Spain, AP8 San Sebastian
(€1.45) then A1,Vitoria, AP1 Burgos (€9.15) and A1 La Cabrera. We
stayed at Camping Pico de la Miel (€18.50 per night) the site is not
suitable for ARV's and the touring pitches are restricted in height
by metal overhead frames.

Thurs 18th Jan.
Today we had a 300 mile trip to Camping Cubillas (€14.50 per night) a
lake side site 9 km north of Granada.

Fri 19th Jan.
Today we had a 205 mile trip to Camping La Rosaleda at Conil de la
Frontera which is about 30 miles east of Cadiz in a non "touristy"
area. The site has excellent facilities, well designated pitches of a
good size. There are only a few pitches suitable for ARV's. Suitable
for long stays with very good discounts (€255 for 30 nights) there's
also a very good on site restaurant. Free wifi connection is also
available.

MADRID RING ROAD.
With the completion of the Madrid ring road transiting the city is
now very easy. It's a very well engineered "Spaghetti" junction, I
set the cruise control at 60 mph and maintained that speed for most
of the trip round the ring road. For rapid entry/exit to the city
there are the R (rapid) routes they are clearly marked "Peaje/Toll"
We used R4 to exit the city and it cost us €7.05 for the 56 km
journey well worth the expense to avoid the very heavy traffic
leaving the city.

If you are transiting the city from the north (E5/A1) to the south
(E5/A4) just follow this route.

From E5/A1
Take M50, Head towards E90 A2 Zaragoza M45 A3 A4

Head towards R3 Valencia E901 A3 Valencia A4 R4 A42 R5

E5 A4 Cordoba Exit 46.
Or for rapid route follow signs R4.

These instructions might seem complicated but they are easy to
follow. If by any chance you do get lost just follow any A4/R4
Cordoba sign.
In Spain the motorways are called Autovia and Autopista, normally the
Autovia is free and the Autopista is a toll road. The Autovia is
signed A, while the Autopista is signed AP. There could be some
exceptions.

In Spain we found the diesel varied from €0.87 to €0.91 per litre.

Safe travelling.

Don