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Why does anyone think that a 'van must lose the value of the VAT the minute it leaves the showroom? The VAT is irrelevant in the price. If I buy a new 'van for £40K and two weeks later I decide I don't like it and offer it at £37K there is no doubt that I may find a buyer. I personally would be happy to save £3K on a 'van that is just a couple of weeks old!
The VAT element is no different from the import duty on the 'van's constituent parts or the dealer's profit margin. The only thing that matters is the new price and what it's considered to be worth a short time later.
In calculating the used price of anything a trader simply looks at the new price and decides what it's worth is now. This is purely dependent on the age and desirability of the product - VAT or anything else has no bearing whatsoever on the price.
I'm only repeating the comments about VAT that appear on MHF in many threads. I suspect it's a common way of a salesman justifying the significant drop in value between a new purchase and a PX a year or so later.
In Richard's case one years depreciation from list price varied between £8K and £14K which is a helluva differential. Put another way his van had lost between 20% and 36% of its list price in a year, depending on which dealer you talk to.
That's still better (for the customer) than a year old Ford Focus listed at £15K, with a PX value of £8K and a dealer price of £9K. In that case any nit paying list loses 47% in a year. If the customer had shopped around he could've bought the vehicle new for £12.5K which reduces his loss to 'only' 36% in a year.
So there's two ways of looking at your PX offers Richard, one is that except for the £25K one you're better off than a new Focus owner and the second is that the salesman was short sighted and thought your Hymer WAS a Ford Focus
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We have been thinking of changing our 1 year old M/H and have been getting a few P/X prices.
The Van was £39K retail new but we got about 3k discount so it would have been about £36 in reality. 12 months on we have been offered between £25 and £31k of new Auto trails and Swifts retailing around the £48/£50k mark.
So if deffinatly pays you to shop around as we have found a £6K difference. I though our M/H would be a good P/X as well as it is on the MK7 Transit.
Richard...
Another thought on your PX.
You got a £3K (or 7 to 8%) discount on your new purchase.
To test out the theory re discounts varying depending on the season, just when did you negotiate and order the van?
Andy
______________________________________________________________ The opinions expressed here are those of the poster and cannot be relied upon as he is a no good scoundrel and a wastrel who shouldn´t be trusted with anyone´s Grandmother.
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Your home may be at risk if you should take any notice of the rubbish printed here.
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We part exchanged our 1991 Talbot Express Autohomes Bedouin at the end of 2003 for an Autosleeper Nuevo. We were offered £8000 unseen but when we took it in they said the roof was damp and it would cost £1200 to put right so we had to accept £6800 or lose the deal. We went back to the dealer a couple of weeks later and saw our old van on the forecourt, untouched!! Had no roof repairs done as the solar panel was still in place. The cost was £10,000. It was sold shortly after.
I supppose they thought they may get away with not doing the roof and hoped the new owner wouldn't spot the damp until the warranty had run out.
Pammy
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Why does anyone think that a 'van must lose the value of the VAT the minute it leaves the showroom? The VAT is irrelevant in the price. If I buy a new 'van for £40K and two weeks later I decide I don't like it and offer it at £37K there is no doubt that I may find a buyer. I personally would be happy to save £3K on a 'van that is just a couple of weeks old!
The VAT element is no different from the import duty on the 'van's constituent parts or the dealer's profit margin. The only thing that matters is the new price and what it's considered to be worth a short time later.
In calculating the used price of anything a trader simply looks at the new price and decides what it's worth is now. This is purely dependent on the age and desirability of the product - VAT or anything else has no bearing whatsoever on the price.
I totally agree with what you're saying TT, which in a nutshell is 'something is as valuable as what someone is willing to pay'.
You can toss up whether paying £3K less for last year's model is worth it compared to a brand new van that you might get £3K knocked off if you bargain hard enough.
Admittedly the niggling initial faults have probably been sorted but you've got a years less warranty on the base vehicle so there's swings and roundabouts. Personally I'd say that about £6K less than list for a year old £40K van would be the point at which I'd buy. After all as has been said before - the first owner has the biggest depreciation hit and that holds true with all vehicles.
These days there's loads of info for free on authorititive websites about the pricing of new and used cars and nobody should go into a sale/purchase blind.
However on motorhomes the trade are still managing to keep the price information to themselves and the punter is walking around in the dark. Various magazines make a half hearted effort at showing recent used prices but they're normally screen prices from two months before and rarely will you find any decent information to guide you.
It's a minefield for the innocent and unwary that is another breeding ground for disappointment and distrust with the dealer network of the UK.
Andy
Last edited by Steamdrivenandy on Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total ______________________________________________________________ The opinions expressed here are those of the poster and cannot be relied upon as he is a no good scoundrel and a wastrel who shouldn´t be trusted with anyone´s Grandmother.
Opinions may go down as well as up.
Opinions may be recorded for security and staff training purposes
Your home may be at risk if you should take any notice of the rubbish printed here.
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Please bear in mind that all used items, whether they be cars, washing machines or whatever, VAT is payable by the seller at 17.5% on the GROSS profit margin.
For example say something is sold with a £500 margin and it costs the seller £200 to put it right, he is left with £300 but the VAT is still aprox £150 (7/47 of £500 or 14.9%) which he has to pay to Customs and Excise.
His net profit is only £150.
Applies to everything sold second hand.
______________________________________________________________ Swift Main Dealer - UK FiammaCare Centre for parts and advice
Peter
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Hi i MUST AGREE with JCM the profit on say £30,000 m/h is between 10-15% but when you takeout vat and tax mans bit the dealer only gets around 1500 ish ,then take off any discounts and he may only have 500 to 1000.My mate who sold m/h for 20 yrs has stoped selling them because he now says it is not worthwhile only getting say 500 to get a sale. Laying out 30k for 500 profit and headace ?he now sells new cars and lays out 10 k for a profit of 1k His parting message to me was I can get a last yrs model (new)swift for you 7k under price
terry
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Hi i MUST AGREE with JCM the profit on say £30,000 m/h is between 10-15% but when you takeout vat and tax mans bit the dealer only gets around 1500 ish ,then take off any discounts and he may only have 500 to 1000.My mate who sold m/h for 20 yrs has stoped selling them because he now says it is not worthwhile only getting say 500 to get a sale. Laying out 30k for 500 profit and headace ?he now sells new cars and lays out 10 k for a profit of 1k His parting message to me was I can get a last yrs model (new)swift for you 7k under price
terry
He will be losing money, there isn't £7000 in any of them and Swift dont do a 'flog off' on last years models as there aren't any as MH's are made to dealers orders and not stockpiled like cars or vans.
______________________________________________________________ Swift Main Dealer - UK FiammaCare Centre for parts and advice
Peter
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