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Andy is trying to convince Fiat to officially acknowledge there's a design/mechanical problem
Fiat are saying it's down to the Driver's techhnique
If Andy wants to prove his point, and disprove Fiat's, he'd be better off asking everyone to perform the reverse test and then report ALL results, not just those who experience the judder.
To bring strength to his argument he needs to say, for example " a sample of 100 people performed the test of which 97% experienced the judder therefore statistically it's unlikely that that percentage were not driving properly.....ergo it must be a design fault"
Merely to take a figure to Fiat and say "97 people told me they had experienced a judder would likely be greeted with a Fiat retort that "well we've sold five thousand and they haven't complained so that 97 weren't driving properly"
I've provided simplistic figures to illustrate but I'm sure you get the point.
And to ask "unsuccessful judderers"( ) to go back and try again is harming any attempt to provide meaningful statistics.
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Hi.
Sorry but i have to ask
At what point does a design characteristic become an out & out fault under the law as in vehicle not free from defects etc
NB For those that are interested the "judder issue" has now been added as a question to the database thread (Link in my signature)
Thanks in anticipation of varied responses
Catherine
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I suppose it's a matter of Proof ie getting evidence that it's a "defect" and the last I saw on OAL Forum, Fiat weren't accepting any engineers' reports other than their own
I'll be inteterested in Fiat's response to Swift's enquiry about this "issue"- it's another another thread "Swift Juddergate" as and when it comes.
Yet there are still those (on MHF too) who say it's down to driving technique and "getting used to the vehicle"
Apparently MMM at last will be doing some sort of feature on it-next issue I think
It's worth having a look at the various threads on OAL on this if you haven't had time to catch up since beinbg away
______________________________________________________________ I DO belong here- and I joined before May 2005- and I´m one of the very few ever to have been resurrected!
Chez soi-C´est ou on se stationne!!
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Yet there are still those (on MHF too) who say it's down to driving technique and "getting used to the vehicle"
I did a few more tests last week, including Gerald's (I think) soggy grass test.
From my experiences I would argue that driving technique and getting used to the vehicle do certainly help - A BIT, but not much!!!!
In effect they help to slightly reduce the effects, but do not remove them altogether - on my van at least.
(Just for interest, I can't reverse or set off forwards with my foot off the accelerator. It stalls every time if I am on even a slight incline however gently I feed in the clutch. Perhaps my van needs the engine management "flash", which may be one of the 5 recalls I'm waiting for.)
I think we can accept that some vans are much worse than others, which explains why not everyone is grizzling about the problem. Same as "Scuttlegate" - mine is not too bad on that score, and would not have bothered me had I not read so much about it on here.
There definitely is a problem with my van - more than I had realised now I have done the deliberate testing. Like Gerald, I had not needed to reverse in "difficult" circumstances before and so was not fully aware of how bad it is.
Hi Zebedee.
Informative post as usual.
Should I put you down as yes to the "judder" on the database?
I only ask because so far out 6 out of 7 who have replied to the "judder" question have it might as well be 7 out of 8
Regards Catherine
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Also, we're hoping Watchdog will be on the case as they have been in touch showing a keen interest in how things are going.
So perhaps we'll see Nicky Campbell confronting Fiat
I suppose I should have put this Post on Andy's Thread as it's not a PMH issue
Catherine only eight respondents to the Judder?? Does it need flagging up again?
______________________________________________________________ I DO belong here- and I joined before May 2005- and I´m one of the very few ever to have been resurrected!
Chez soi-C´est ou on se stationne!!
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Hi Zebedee.
Informative post as usual.
Should I put you down as yes to the "judder" on the database?
I only ask because so far out 6 out of 7 who have replied to the "judder" question have it might as well be 7 out of 8
Regards Catherine
Yes. I'll be happy to join the club Catherine, and thanks for the kind words.
I don't think mine is as bad as some, but I haven't tried it on a really steep hill and it might tie itself in knots if I did. I'd rather not risk it unless I have to - especially if Andy Stothert's rumour machine is correct and there is a possible retro-fix on the way.
I have to say however, I would still buy another van on the same chassis as it is such a big improvement on the previous model - especially if you are my size.
Hi Telbell.
Am I right in taking it that you are not affected?
If so thanks for your support & you are quite right it needs flagging again
& Watchdog showing interest
They usually do when something has been going on long enough, eventually all media will jump on the bandwagon...yipeee!!!
So...Could I please ask all members who own one of these vehicles to visit the link in my signature for the database threadand do an update post to say if they do or don't have the dreaded "JUDDER"
& if you haven't filled in the database info to please do so
Also thanks Zebedee your info is now updated
Regards Catherine
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) to go back and try again is harming any attempt to provide meaningful statistics.
