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I had two separate conversations with people at the recent NEC show about towing using an A - frame in Europe and in Spain ; one said that A frames were being ‘banned’ across Europe next year unless they were TüV approved and the other said that new EU proposals about towing were due to be enforced during 2012
I have been towing a Smart car behind my Rapido throughout Europe for the past three years without any problems; but, next year, I am planning a trip to Rioja in September (out with Brittany Ferries and back by road) and have a feeling that I might have a problem
I do not like having problems; but I do like travelling with my Smart car in Europe so I have a concern about next year’s travel plans
I am concerned that there is
• no factual statements coming out of any trade body /manufacturer/government office that sets the record straight
• a lot of opinions expressed on forums such as MHF about A-Frames/Trailers
• Trade Journals that also express opinions rather than facts in articles about towing
What I think is needed is
• a statement from the Spanish Government’s Transport Minister that would confirm what the Spanish police can and can’t do with regard to the use of A-frames in Spain (this could be managed by a body such as ‘The Caravan Club’ and circulated)
• to have the EU proposals published in a trade magazine (let’s have a campaigning journalist on the case)
• find a sympathetic MEP that could give us an inside view about any proposed legislation and raise the awareness of people like me looking for an assurance about problem-free towing in Europe
Let me know if you share my concerns
MGA Coupe
There are so many threads discussing this topic and there does not appear to be any resolution since it will depend on court hearings and judgements to decide what is allowed and what is not.
The situation is not a European decision but is national and is based on the Vienna Convention - which the UK and Spain have never signed anyway.
I suspect this topic will run and run for many years to come and will never be finally decided - the MEP's do not really seem to want to get involved, not surprisingly, and each country seems determined to do their own thing and not give definitive answers....
but I'm not sure you'll get any definitive answers!
______________________________________________________________ Still sat here in front of the computer - it may be in the office, or on the laptop if I manage to get away from the office.
As far as I know, the only motorhoming Oxford United supporter in Bognor.
Oh, No, not another thread running. It has been done to death. There are 4 or 5 running at present. about A frames and morals of fitters, the situation in Spain, the antics of UKIP, ezytow trailers for bikes and twoing scooters on an A frame equivalent
There are no EU plans to ban A frames. The 2014 regs do not ban A frames but tighten up trailer regulation. It us up to each country to decide what is and is not allowed as a trailer and the free international circulation of vehicles/trailers is not an EU matter but a UN one under the Vienna Convention, which whilst signed by both UK and Spain has not been ratified by either.
No minister or civil servant can give a definitive answer to what the law is, only the courts, we think that A frames are legal in UK, but they have not been tested in Court and neither have they in Spain.
As with most things in life there is a risk and it is a value judgement
My point is that if there are EU propsals that affect the construction and use of motor cars then we would have the manufacturers, the SMMT and the trade magazines on the case whilst the ink was still wet
In the case of MHs and A frames what do we have from our industry? Zippo, Zilch
MGA Coupe
My point is that if there are EU propsals that affect the construction and use of motor cars then we would have the manufacturers, the SMMT and the trade magazines on the case whilst the ink was still wet
In the case of MHs and A frames what do we have from our industry? Zippo, Zilch
MGA Coupe
As has been reported in many different threads on the same topic, there can be no definitive answers, your point about organisations not getting involved should not be a surprise; the number of people who use them is small and the profit margin for companies also small.
It is unlikely that any definitive decision could be arrived at in the UK without it going through the courts, and probably the court of appeal and the supreme court - so the costs involved in such an action are prohibitive, even for a large organisation such as the CC (of which only a very small number of members are concerned, not even all MH owners),
DVLA is unlikely to take anyone to court - the outcome is far from clear and the DPP rarely allows things to go to court that are unclear, so unless some errant police force suddenly decides to hound someone through the situation will remain unresolved.
And that is only for the UK, it would then have to go through each of the member countries courts in the same way before any European agreement might happen.
So this subject has been done to death on here, and elsewhere, can we let it drop unless something new and radical comes up - which is VERY VERY unlikely.......
Well, I am not going to let it drop
I will write to the Spanish Transport Minister in the first instance; would you like me to send you a copy of his reply?
MGA Coupe
You can write until you are blue in the face, old and die. You won't get a definitive response from the minister or a civil servant.
They will say it is up to the courts but that they interpret it this way or that. The only real qustion is does a car towed on an A frame becoe a trailer under the law of whichever country or is it a towed car. If it is a towed car then car towing regs apply, if it is a trailer then trailer towing regs apply
only way out is if the law is changed in each country which I think would be Vienna Convention, not EU, or go to Spain, get caught, pay up and then chalenge on the grounds it is a remolque.
Well, I am not going to let it drop
I will write to the Spanish Transport Minister in the first instance; would you like me to send you a copy of his reply?
MGA Coupe
My point is that if there are EU propsals that affect the construction and use of motor cars then we would have the manufacturers, the SMMT and the trade magazines on the case whilst the ink was still wet
In the case of MHs and A frames what do we have from our industry? Zippo, Zilch
MGA Coupe
You can stamp your feet til they hurt but to compare a multi-billion pound and multi-billion user, car industry with the cottage industry that is a-frames is just daft
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