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I hope someone may be able to advise me about this. I have a 2008 model Bessacarr E560 and I've noticed that on the 2009 model equivalent, and on other vans, Swift is now offering a factory-fitted option of 12 volt frost protection heaters in the fresh and waste water tanks, for those who wish to use the MH in winter.
I'm interested in retro-fitting such a heater, probably just in the fresh water tank. I know that CAK supply the heating elements to Swift and they are standard items in the CAK catalogue - I would go for the auto version with thermostat sensors (on at 5C, off at 10C). CAK sent me the installation instructions; I've not yet ordered the parts. As well as the element they can also provide a switch with LED which they recommend wiring the element through. They also recommend mounting the element approx 30mm from the base of the tank, nutting it through the side wall of the tank and applying silicone sealant to the threads. Then wiring back to the DC supply via the switch in a suitable place.
The tank has a top inspection hatch; while the panel in the floor is nice and big the circular hatch itself is smaller but more than adequate to get an arm in and this is immediately above the tank drain plug. As the tank is only 23cm (9in) deep and the side wall is only 10 cm away, the fitting doesn't seem that difficult, but if you did drop anything it could roll into a far corner of the strangely shaped tank and be hard to retrieve. Also you would be working blind inside the tank (your arm would obscure the work) and it might need a second person on the outside as well, so the job isn't entirely straightforward. I hate fiddly jobs and if anyone can drop anything I can, so I tried to find someone to fit it. The dealer I bought the van from wouldn't do it and recommended a local auto electrical company who wanted to fit it through the top of the tank! The dealer also said a larger branch of the same dealership might do it but when I approached them they said they wouldn't do it without dismounting the tank and fitting the heater with the tank off the vehicle. I think they were just trying to justify a high price and didn't want the job. CAK said they sell loads of these heaters and couldn't see the problem.
It's probably that I'm just a DIY wimp and I'll likely end up doing it myself, but if anyone has done one of these and/or has any advice, please can you post a reply.
I have just bought a Swift Voyager, i have had tank heaters fitted to both my tanks, this was carried out by West Country Motorhomes, they fitted the elements with the thermostats, the elements were supplied by CAK tanks.
Hope this helps
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Yes it does help - thanks. They're too far from me (nearly 400 miles!) to do the job for me, but I'll give them a call and see if they'll give me some advice on the phone.
I've just bought this myself - leaving Thursday. Oops.
I do not have an access panel in the tank, but I do currently have the tank in the dining room
I'm hoping it isn't going ot be too complex to fit - ask me tomorrow evening....
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Yes it does help - thanks. They're too far from me (nearly 400 miles!) to do the job for me, but I'll give them a call and see if they'll give me some advice on the phone.
Appreciate your reply,
Roger
Roger,please PM your contact details and I will get our technical guy to make contact.Regards Peter.
Hi there Roger. I also have a Bessacarr E560 made in March 2008.
Bessacarr customer care sent me three page information Email for fitting a fresh water tank heater.
I traced the wiring on my model and it has the water heater connection already installed. The wiring socket is hanging from the floor, rear of water tank. I could not see it from the water tank inspection hatch, only by sliding under the vehicle. The two way connector has wires Purple/Blue (12v +ve) and White/Orange (+ve).
The C.A.K. DFE-02 heater with an internal thermostat automatically switches on when the water temperature fall below 5 degrees C. Consumption is quoted at 2.5 - 2.8 amps.
It recommends interrupting the purple/Blue wire to install a switch with an 'on' warning light. The two wires runs across the floor under the bench seat (next to sink) and goes through the floor.
The Swift Group recommends fitting the heater through the water tank black inspection cap so as not to damage the water tank. Access to the black cap is through a cover in the floor between the bench seats.
All the heating element bits and pieces are in the C.A.K. catalogue page18. The switch bits are also found in the catalogue.
Hi there Roger. I also have a Bessacarr E560 made in March 2008.
Bessacarr customer care sent me three page information Email for fitting a fresh water tank heater.
I traced the wiring on my model and it has the water heater connection already installed. The wiring socket is hanging from the floor, rear of water tank. I could not see it from the water tank inspection hatch, only by sliding under the vehicle. The two way connector has wires Purple/Blue (12v +ve) and White/Orange (+ve).
The C.A.K. DFE-02 heater with an internal thermostat automatically switches on when the water temperature fall below 5 degrees C. Consumption is quoted at 2.5 - 2.8 amps.
It recommends interrupting the purple/Blue wire to install a switch with an 'on' warning light. The two wires runs across the floor under the bench seat (next to sink) and goes through the floor.
The Swift Group recommends fitting the heater through the water tank black inspection cap so as not to damage the water tank. Access to the black cap is through a cover in the floor between the bench seats.
All the heating element bits and pieces are in the C.A.K. catalogue page18. The switch bits are also found in the catalogue.
Good luck from MikeRickshaw.
Thanks for this Mike - yes I am aware of all the points you raise and have now fitted the heater as Swift advises - vertically through the tank inspection cap. The spur wiring to a connector clipped to the floor underside was also present on my van. As you found, I could not see this connector from the floor hatch end either - I had to go under the van to see it was there.
I can add only two things - firstly that CAK disputes the Swift method of fitting their heater (however I chose to use Swift's vertical-mount method anyway and it does seem to work); secondly that the section of outlet pipe from the fresh water tank that leads to the water pump and specifically the part of that pipe that is below the floor is inadeqately insulated (at least it is on my van) and will freeze in sub-zero temperatures in spite of the heating element in the tank (this happened to me at an air temperature outside the van of -8C). Improved insulation of that pipe section should improve that problem I think.
Here is a copy of a PM I sent in response to an enquiry on the subject; I hope it illuminates these points a bit more.
Best wishes
Roger
Copy of PM:
Hi Paul,
Sorry for slightly delayed reply - only got back today from my New Year break - temperatures of -12c at night in the South West. Had a good time though!
Yes I did fit a heater in the fresh water tank, or rather I had one fitted.
I got advice directly from Swift (via the forum and PMs) who sent me wiring instructions (attached) and gave me verbal advice on the physical fitting. This was interesting! Swift now offer this as a factory fit option on new vans and they fit the CAK heating element directly through the tank inspection cap, mounted vertically - the available space is 230mm vertically and the element is 200mm long, so in that sense it fits in nicely. However it's obvious that the length of the heater actually in the water will vary with the depth of water in the tank - i.e. how full the tank is!
The wiring instructions make clear that the circuit to be used will only be energised when the tank is at least 1/4 full. That said, the thermostatic sensors on the element are at the "cap" end so it wasn't obvious to me that the vertical-mount arrangement would work as required as the sensors will be in air more or less all the time.
I discussed this with both Swift and CAK before committing to the job. Swift was admant that the arrangement worked just fine. CAK was outraged at the approach! CAK recommends fitting the element through the side wall of the tank just above the base (max 30mm) and near the pump pipe outlet - that way the element is always immersed. However the CAK method makes the job more tricky and risks subseqent leakage after a period of time, however well the nut-through joint is sealed.
I decided to use Swift's approach and I must say that it does indeed seem to work fine. However in spite of the "on at 5c, off at 10c" thermostat setting. the element seems to spend a lot of its life hot (purely from random and subjective tests) and its life may be reduced compared to a fully-immersed installation as recommended by CAK.
There is one further problem you need to be aware of - while the element does its job (even the way I've fitted it) in terms of the tank water. the short (6-8 ins) section of pipe beneath the floor (this is the supply pipe from the tank to the water pump) is liable to freeze just in that section, because the loose-fitting foam insulation Swift puts round it is pathetically inadeqate. I proved this was the problem - when the water ceased to flow although the pump was still trying its best, I spent a happy 10 minutes under the van with a hair drier playing on that very bit of pipe and soon enough the water flowed again. Mind you, the temperature was -8C at the time. So as soon as I can I'll be putting some tightly bound and much improved insulation on that bit of pipe. I think the heater plus that should do the trick.
Take a look at the attached re the wiring - it's all quite straightforward. It's important to wire to the correct circuit in the fusebox/harness because of the tie-in with the tank level gauge - circuit energised only when tank 1/4 full or more (so also important to keep water above that level in cold conditions). On my van the spur wiring from the fusebox to a connector clipped to the floor underside was in place.
If you fit the element yourself, and you do it the "Swift" way (vertically through the tank inspection cap) make sure you put a connector in above the cap so you can pull the wiring off if you need to unscrew the cap at any stage subsequent to fitting. Obvious I know, but easily overlooked!
I have been thinking about installing some heaters. Could you be so kind as to PM me a copy of the instruction you got from Swift.
Many Thanks,
Stewart
Yes, I have sent you a PM with the instruction attached. Please note my comment in the PM about the mechanical fitting of the element and my post above.
If Swift should read this, here is something for you to consider: the low temperatures so far this winter will probably raise the level of interest in retrofitting these tank heaters. To save me becoming an unpaid member of your customer service department sending PMs galore, please could you consider a way of making this instruction available directly to any interested party, at least on this forum or perhaps more widely. Two possibilities occur to me: one is to liaise with the MHF moderators to install this and other useful instructions or bulletins in a sticky thread (in the companies section I guess); the other (better) is to have an area of your website containing such information and clearly signed from the home page. You could even do both!
For everyone else I would reiterate again that Swift was most helpful to me in my request for support in fitting a heater in the fresh tank - thanks Swift. Oh and if you do post an instruction as I've suggested please could it include the recommended mechanical fit as well as the very clear wiring instructions.
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sending PMs galore, please could you consider a way of making this instruction available directly to any interested party, at least on this forum or perhaps more widely. Two possibilities occur to me: one is to liaise with the MHF moderators to install this and other useful instructions or bulletins in a sticky thread (in the companies section I guess); the other (better) is to have an area of your website containing such information and clearly signed from the home page. You could even do both!
