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Hi
There are many companies out there offering engine remaps, chipping call it what you like. I am sure all, well most of these companies are reputable, but I have a doubt in my mind about some of the claims made by some of these companies.
Most companies claim an improvement in power/performance, not something we need. Improved torque, probably the major consideration for remapping and thirdly improved fuel economy.
It is the third reason I have doubts about. Is it physically possible to reduce the amount of fuel being used in a modern day diesel engine. If it is, why do the manufacturers e.g. Fiat include it in their EC programming. What a great selling point if they can offer 15%,20% or even 25% better economy than they quote in their figures now.
I have spoken to a few people who have had remaps and all state that their vehicle (all Fiat X250 base) have seen an improvement in economy according to their trip meter. drivers with pre X250 base models have not seen improvements to the same degree, some only 5%. unless you know differently of course.
Now the big ask.... Is it possible for a dubious remap company to "trick" the on board computer into thinking, therefore displaying a better fuel consumption figure?
Having had experience of a remap on an X250 which over the last 5000 mles has returned according to the trip 22mpg. Following a remap it now shows an average mpg of 26mpg an improvement of 15% HOWEVER calculating the consumption on paper. Litres divided by 4.54 then mileage divided by gallons show the van is doing........Guess what 22MPG! UnfortunatelyI did not do the same manual calculation prior to the remap, but I am confident it was fairly accurate when comparing notes with other van owners of a similar size weight and the number of miles covered in between refills.
I have had 2 other vehicles (sports cars) remapped/chipped in the past and a 2.8 Fiat Motorhome (by the no longer trading Van Aiken) All had massive increases in power, performance and torque, None had improved or decreased fuel consumption.
Do a search, this subject has been discussed many times here.
Those who have had it done all seem to think it worthwhile BUT what is the pay back time ?? The saving (if there is one) is only the difference between the fuel you would have used and what you actually use after remap. At 15% saving you will need to do a LOT of miles to save the cost of remapping. Probably change vyour van before you get your investment back !!( I bet someone has already done the maths, I just cant be @rsed !!)
Also I have reports of engine problems after remapping and the manufacturers (Fiat) insisting on being allowed to check the ECU to make sure it has not been "played" with !!! (out of warranty that problem would not arise of course)
I reckon a few quid spent on a economical driving course would prove better value, and you can use the skills learnt on every vehicle you susbsequently drive !!
Whilst I agree with MrPlodd on the merits of an "economical driving course", I don't agree that most have their vans chipped to gain economy, expecting to save money over the period of time of ownership.
Many motorhomes are underpowered, particularly until more recently, and the need arises often enough to have that extra torque or power, to overtake, to pull out of a junction, to not lose so much speed uphill, etc., to warrant the expense.
In other words, to enhance the driving experience of an otherwise sluggish vehicle.
Just my opinion, of course.
______________________________________________________________ Michael. . . . . . When in doubt, try it anyway, and learn from your mistakes!
.......... I did - and I´m now yet another EX Marquis customer!
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless - DEAD!
Thanks for replies. I could not find an answer to my question which was in a nutshell.
Now the big ask.... Is it possible for a dubious remap company to "trick" the on board computer into thinking, therefore displaying a better fuel consumption figure?
Surely the presumption has to be that the manufacturers are doing their best to maximise their commercial advantage? Therefore if there was a magic tweak to improve all the things that are claimed, then I'm sure that they would have incorporated it into their new-builds. I think that the reality is that there are tweaks that can be done that will improve certain aspects of performance at the expense of others - probably engine wear and fuel economy. Until someone can produce evidence otherwise then I won't be tinkering with my ECU.
Having got an older model Peugeot Boxer 2.0 HDI (2005 model) Autosleeper Symbol, the main reason for re-mapping my van was the overall improvement in performance.
The original 85BHP engine is uprated to 115BHP and what a difference to the driving it makes!
We are now able to go uphill in 3rd or even 4th gear sometimes whereas before it was only possible in 2nd. (we have some very steep hills around Eastbourne/Beachy Head area).
I can now also overtake in 5th gear, whereas before, it was a case of thinking if there was enough clear road to carry out the manouvere safely.
Yes there is some improvement in fuel economy, but that was never the main reason for having the work carried out.
As has been said before, how you drive has a lot to do with the fuel economy and cruise control helps a lot in that as well.
The re-mapping was carried out in 2008, by a fellow MHF member, who came to my house to carry out the work & didn't leave until I had driven the van with him along side, to make sure that I was very happy with the results.
To say I was is an understatement, as with out this work being done, I would have sold the van, to buy another one with bigger engine.
It cost me £299 and I can honestly say it was one of the best spends ever.
I have had the van serviced 3 times since then by local garages and never had a problem with the fact that the re-mapping has been done.
______________________________________________________________ Nancy - What´s your´s called ?
Life should not be about arriving at the Pearly Gates in pristine condition
...it should be about sliding in, body thoroughly used up
...bottle of champagne in hand screaming 'WOW WHAT A RIDE'
The reason re-mapping works is that the OEM map has to be a "jack of all trades" and allow for the vehicle working under the worst possible conditions on the lowest grade of fuel.
It has to allow for the worst possible scenario.
Re-mapping is the modern electronic version of "blueprinting" an engine to be used for "production" car racing. All engineering has tolerances and if you can maximise the beneficial effects of those tolerances you can get a "standard" engine that produces much more power than one straight off the production line.
Example I know of = Hillman Avenger 1300 standard engine quoted as producing 57bhp - yet a blue printed 1300 could be capable of up to 130bhp.
How? well it had the shortest possible block with largest possible cylinder bores, smallest possible combustion chambered head with largest possible valves and smoothest ports - that head was a special one homologated for high altitude use in Brazil it also "just happened" to have twin choke Weber carbs fitted as standard.
A good custom re-map just does the modern day equivalent of all that at a fraction of the cost by altering the generic map in the ECU to suit the exact characteristics of that particular engine.
I have had my 2.8 Dicato re mapped, the main reason was the extra power I needed, which has improved and well worth the investment, as far as the mpg you can see from my figures on the motorhome log there is no difference at all in the mpg... but the extra grunt is well worth it... just my view and my personal findings...
"re-mapping works is that the OEM map has to be a "jack of all trades" Sorry but that sounds like salesman talk. Modern engines have modern ECU controllers and are covered in sensors looking at all aspects of combustion, emission gasses, temperature etc. These ECU's automatically calibrate the engine to suit the actual fuel in use. There is no longer any "Jack of all trades" settup on modern engines.
The basics are simple. You can get more power by using more fuel and more air. Both the turbo and fuel injection are under ECU management. Pushing an engine harder will result in increased emissions but can still be well within the levels deemed "OK" for the MOT test. Increasing acceleration is none by increasing the fuel in advance of the increase in air because the turbo takes time to spin up.
If you use more power you will consume more fuel. Pushing an engine in excess of its designed limits will result in a less efficient engine.
Then there are the brakes, transmission, cooling system and handling to be considered.
Spoken by someone who has done it. Tuned engines, wrecked clutches, disintegrated gearboxes etc. etc. But never on a vehicle where reliability was paramount. Boys toys.
Many leading companies in the engine performance enhancement field have gone to the wall. Why do you think that is? (Van Aaken, TB Turbo for example)
When your con-rod comes through the side of the cylinder block you will find that any guarantee you might have will at best return the cost of the re-chipping. It won't buy you a new engine.
As long as the van has been mapped properly and not just for all out peformance you will definitely see an improvement in mpg as long as you drive the van as you did before the remap. If you give the vehicle the right amount of extra power (not too much) then the vehicle is running more efficiently as you do not need to drop down gears when overtaking or coming to hills. It is this that saves you fuel. The fact that the vehicle is running more efficiently. If the remap has been tuned purely for performance then you will see major improvements in power but no improvement in economy.
And no. A remap company cannot re adjust your vehicles trip computer to read more mpgs. Earlier (pre 2006) ducatos dont have a computer and owners report savings in fuel.
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Italy
Remaps and fuel consumption
