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Phil a mate of mine bought from Lowdhams Notts,at a show,went on holiday to Scotland,(had a good time),came back and confessed he missed places because he could not reverse back up a hill without it wanting to self distruct.I showed him the 217 pages of "Juddergate",as it was near the end of its three year warrenty,i rang Chris Bennion at Marquis N/hants.he told us to ring the dealer,"Lowdhams Notts". He did. "Nothing to do with us!".. Phil phoned the Peugeot help line, RESULT!! next day an AA man called and took it for a spin,came back,said its faulty,it was booked into a nearby Peugeot dealers,rev.gear/shaft/synchro on 1st 2cnd fixed,and they even had a go at getting the radio to work properly,all within one week of the initial call to Peugeot helpline. He is now the owner of a proper bit of kit,but sadly,"Lowdhams Notts" has lost another customer,( they lost me by offering less than half price,on a less than a year old Timberland Endeavour),.
Peugeot 1.. Lowdhams 0.
"For the record the clutch and flywheel used in manual and comfort-matic 3.0L Ducato's are identical. The only engine in the Ducato X250 range that does not use a Dual Mass Flywheel is the 2.3
Our vans can cover 5000 miles in the first month on the road, so any manufacturing defects will show up much sooner. We have had a couple of early clutch failures on 2.3's and have only had gearbox problems on vans that have covered over 120,000 (HARD) miles. EXCEPT for a recently self destructed gearbox on a 3.0 manual which although outside 2 year warranty is being repaired for free because the mileage is under 40,000 Incidentally, the clutch and flywheel in this van are in good condition.
I do not believe that the clutches and flywheels fitted to the X250 are any more or less likely to cause problems in the future than any other make of vehicle. All manufacturers have issues; most show up early in the life of the vehicle.
That said, it is high time Fiat sorted the reverse gear ratio out. Four years is just too long."
Location: Bideford - a good place to test juddering Fiats and electric bikes.
Anybody know whether the flywheel in a Comfortmatic is the same as a manual? Ours having self destructed -
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It never juddered though
On a general point, it does seem that there are an unduly large number of flywheel/clutch failures reported on modern automotive engines Dual mass flywheels are really just a torsional vibration damper to prevent torsional vibrations harming the engine itself and the parts it drives – gear boxes etc.
It is interesting to me that the automotive industry often claim technology as “new” when in fact it’s been around for eons in other industries. A good example of this the common rail fuel injection system which when introduced was said to be state of the art but such fuel systems were in use on marine diesel engines before the 1930s
So it is with the torsional dampers (aka dual mass flywheels) but the difference is often that it is in two parts in marine applications – one attached to the free end of the crankshaft to protect the engine itself and one attached to the flywheel to protect the gearbox, transmission etc. They are very reliable and rarely required any attention until about 60,000 hours running which is probably equivalent to an automotive engine running for 2,400.000 miles
So I wonder why the problems – is it that in order to save space, weight and cost, dual mass flywheels are trying to do too much with too little Also, it occurs to me that marine engine usually run continually at their maximum speed but when they run at reduced speed, the torque (and therefore the torque variations that have to be damped out) is hugely reduced.
Automotive diesel engines however often have to endure maximum torque at very low engine speeds which put huge stress on the torsional vibration dampers, whatever their type and I think this could be a significant factor in determining their life.
Finally, could it be significant that we MH’ers and car drivers like to keep the revs down for lower noise and fuel consumption whereas white-van-man often seem to have few qualms about screaming around at high revs in low gears and this could affect the relative durability for the two different application If so, is there any quantitative evidence out there to support the idea that MHs are a more demanding application regarding this issue than the panel van on which they are based
______________________________________________________________ Never let anything mechanical know you are in a hurry
I am considering purchasing a new motorhome of 6.5 to 7 metres and recently hired a Swift Bolero on a Fiat manual gearbox. I reversed it up my driveway, which is quite steep but the clutch started smelling after a few seconds. I didn't manage to get to the top as I was worried I might ruin it. I have read various reports and the items on your forum of problems with the manual gearbox. I would prefer an automatic (as my cars are autos) and does anyone know whether the Fiat auto is good at reversing up slopes or is the Mercedes any better?
[quote]Thank you. Have you any personal experience of the Mercedes auto reversing up a steep slope?[quote]
But you probably want more information than that!
In 2 weeks in North of Scotland on single track roads where reversing (on tarmac) is needed often - no problem.
In campsites from Durness to Venice where some pitches are only available if you can turn 90deg (sometimes on grass or gravel) and reverse on, uphill - no problem.
Reversing on wet grass near Berwick on a moderate incline where next door Fiat juddered going forward - no problem.
It is just not an issue with a true auto box. Cannot compare Mercedes reaction to Fiats in response to known problems since we haven't yet had a problem with Merc.
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