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Hi John

How long ago?

And do you have the HGV classification on your new licence.

They (insurance companies) dont have to ask any more to see your licence, they make a quick call to DVLA to find out your points and groups.

George
 

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Hi

I seem to have lost the plot amongst all this but as we have moved/added the insurance issue..........and if they can find a way out of paying they will:

In the later years running Trailmasters we switched from Land Rover to HUGE support vehicles for our North African tours. Over those years I bought ex-Paris Dakar service vehicles. These WOULD have required HGV, but we ripped out interior and had them fitted and re-reg'd as Motorhomes. I also ran an ex military Tatra and a couple of DAF YA's all well over 7.5 ton, but were converted and re-reg'd as MHomes. As public liability became a factor, as I often carried passengers, I asked specifically with various insurance co's re weight/licence requirements and always, as these vehicle were NOW Mhomes we were oK with normal licences.

As these vehicle were unusual the amount of police pull-overs ran into I would think hundreds, both here and abroad. Licesnces were often checked and on one or two occasions phone calls made before we were always aloud to proceed.

Insurance? Unfortunaly I was recently involved in an horrendous traffic accident, involving serious injury to a child pedestrian who ran into the road. I was driving a MASSIVE Merc Unimog at the time that was ex-HGV but again is now a Mhome. Believe me when I say that during the 6 hours I was held in a police station my "legal" to drive was well and truly checked. The matter has now been finalised without "problems".

In short I have only ever driven HGV vehicles (8) converted to Mhomes and have been dragged well through the legal and insurance system and have emerged intact........
 

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Time to put this one to bed then? I have always believed that a Motorcaravan is just that. Not a HGV/LGV but a Motorcaravan. Therefore it is no longer a GOODS vehicle or whatever it was BEFORE conversion, with me so far? Providing you don't exceed the maximum designed weight of said vehicle you are well within the law 8) It all seems daft, but nonetheless true :lol:
When is a egg not a egg? When it's a motorhome :lol: :lol: :lol:


Crackpot.
 

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Our new van will be taxed as a private LGV. It will need to be driven by someone with an LGV license. This has been checked with all the proper legal people.

Not sure about conversions, I was under the impression that motorhomes still occupy a grey area in many parts of the law/highway code/dvla etc.. and have decided to err on the side of caution in all respects.


Lizzie
 

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:D In answer to George Telford. I passed my test for HGV in the Army in 1964 and my motorcycle test in 1969, also in the Army. I still only have the old paper licence, which states Class A, D, E. Class A says I can drive just about anything excepting those covered by D and E. I have tried to find a direct conversion to the newer style licence without any joy so far. Maybe someone else has the answer. :?:
 

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Hi Ray

Could you let me/us have a few more details, unfortunate though the Childs injuries are, they do tend to confirm what I have said all along Motorhomes are not HGV's and NOT weight restricted. Because they would not have messed around (turned a blind eye) with an Injury case.

Its interesting that even when stopped abroad you have been OK.


George
 

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Quite right George..........it all still leaves me a little confused though.

Slightly off type of vehicle, but a couple of othern points do show that once a base HGV chassis is constructed and re-reg'ed..............My brother-in-law keeps horses. When last in the UK I went to a large show. Some of the horse boxes there were HUGE, with living accommodation etc etc. I even saw a twin-axel one. One in particular caught my eye, partly because of it's size and partly because of the obviously very young female groom driver. I joked with her about handling, comfort etc and she confirmed her other vehicle was a Ford Fiesta.......and as far as she was concerned/confirmed she could drive that monster on her car licence. I also remember many years ago being involved in moving large ex-military trucks to an out of UK destination (cant say where, but was legal). These vehicle were officually re-reg'ed as ambulances, partly for ease of transit but more for the "anyone can drive" aspect.

Sorry, am I way off plot?

In short it seems to me that no matter what the base vehicle starts life as it's what it ends up as that counts i.e. a motorhome, horsebox, whatever.

And yes, my driving licence and insurance were taken away and put through exceptional scrutiny after the aforementioned incident.

PS. What more details?
 

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Well the accident, UK or abroad, is your licence only standard for cars ?
Its interesting because it answers a lot of the snipes that have been put forth

ie Insurance wont pay out (this one crops up continually)

Being stopped abroad, had enough trouble researching UK Law, which countries etc

You mentioned the legal system, its just a little more detail that may help everyone get a better idea of the Legal position.

Amazing that someone who as had no problems (attempting) to slaughter me on public forum's sends a brief apology via email, but thats better than most who just skulk off when the evidence says they are wrong.

EDITED TO ADD that its not Ray (detourer) who sent me the email, His posts actually support my posting about Motorhomes are Not HGV's
 

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OK George

Accident was in Spain.........and they don't p### around re documents when there is a sniff of trouble. Licence is the pink CC type card with photo. Non HGV.

There was damage to a shop front and my vehicle (after hitting first child and avoiding second one!). Usual investigation with insurance co., NFU on this vehicle as it my "private" one. All sorted. And they were/are well aware that base vehicle is a Merc Unimog.

When running aforementioned mention vehicles in previous post........Most members of my staff and myself, were stopped in, I would say all Euro counties (and beyond) many many times. Some did have HGV, but like me some didn't.......Balance of investigation lent towards we didn't need HGV for the vehicles we drove. Never nicked on a licence issue. If we were, no question, we would have got HGV.

Hope that answers your questions..................Could sound like it was me that sent you an email........I didn't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Slightly off type of vehicle, but a couple of othern points do show that once a base HGV chassis is constructed and re-reg'ed..............My brother-in-law keeps horses. When last in the UK I went to a large show. Some of the horse boxes there were HUGE, with living accommodation etc etc. I even saw a twin-axel one. One in particular caught my eye, partly because of it's size and partly because of the obviously very young female groom driver. I joked with her about handling, comfort etc and she confirmed her other vehicle was a Ford Fiesta.......and as far as she was concerned/confirmed she could drive that monster on her car licence.
Sorry but that is nonsense. The guy who owns the storage yard where Dragon bus lives, had a horse box and he needed a C licence, he also needed a tachograph if he was using it to transport show horses.

I know a girl who drives a large horse box, but it is under 7.5t and she holds a C1 licence.

I also phoned construction and use today with regard to motorcaravans, the nice man told me the definition as per SI (1986) 1078 and that construction and use don't have anything to do with classifying driving licence categories, the DVLA are responsible for driving licences.

Which brings me back to the car licence category B upto 3500KG, anyone want to tell me how you get around the legal definition of a motorcar?
 

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Hi Jonathon

I think if you are moving horses for someone else its commercial and as you say it then needs Tacho etc. But for personal use with living accomodation.........................

With regards to Marsham, dont ask loaded questions.

The question you need to ask is

Does a motorcaravan fall under the definition of a HGV to which they will answer NO

at no point have I or anyone else said that C&U Marsham Make licencing decisions, legally the DVLA dont either, thats all down to legisaltion. But the DVLA claim that marsham C&U classify a Motorhome over 7.5 tonnes as an HGV, nut when you ask (marsham) they say exactly the opposite ie a Motorhome is NOT and HGV.

Also construction and use dept are mentioned in the legislation as the arbitors of HGV definition and as I have already said they say Motorhome is Not HGV.

If it is an HGV (as you and the DVLA claim) then all new ones must be fitted with speed limiters and Tachographs. Ask Vosa they say that if a motorhome were classed as an HGV then it would have to be kitted out with Tacho etc Otherwise it would have to be listed as an EXEMPTED vehicle which it is not.

Re going back to motorcar weights, cars are defined and do have a few weights bandied about. BUT a motorhome is not a car.

Next we go back to Minibuses they have no weight limit and can be 20 tonnes or more as long as the vehicle meets construction and use and as the right number of axles etc. this is Just to show that not all vehicles are constricted by weight.

If we follow your logic forward Jonathon, its not a car so cant be driven on car licence, its not an HGV because the people who decide that (Marsham) say its not, The C class on a licence still refers back to HGV law which is Goods Vehicle (which means it doesnt cover motorhomes) so what licence is required Jon? According to the above no-one can drive a large motorhome legally.

How can you dismiss what Ray says Just because it doesnt fit your opinion?

George
 

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Hi RDB

Like I say, not going to get draw into the "argument" side of all this.

My licence says CI. My vehicle has a GVM of 10.600kg + conversion body, not sure of total weight but I may if I see one put it on a wbridge. Can I drive it........legal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
A motor caravan does not fall into the definition of a motorcar, nor does it fall into the definition of a HGV, or for that matter a PCV.

There is a legal definition of a motor caravan contained in SI (1986) 1078 which states it is a vehicle designed to carry persons and goods which is fitted with fixed living accommodation.

Now as the legal definition of a car category B is a 4 wheel vehicle upto 3500KG regardless of the use of the vehicle that means it can be a commercial vehicle ie a transit, or a car upto 8 seats. Or a small motorhome.

A person who has a category B licence cannot drive a car which weighs more than 3500KG or tow a trailer over 750KG, if they cannot drive a car over 3500KG does that imply they can drive a van of any size or a lorry of any size provided it's not a car?

Pre 1997 the limit was 7500KG, a minibus is a "small bus", the definition appears to have been lost in translation.

The crux of your arguement is that the HGV licence is for driving goods vehicles. And as a "motorcaravan" is not an HGV therefor it can be driven on a car licence. The only problem with this arguement is that a car licence has a water tight definition which limits the size of vehicle that can be driven. There are a list of exemptions but "motorcaravan" is not on that list.

Using the minibus loop hole also opens up problems, if you state the vehicle is a "motorcaravan" on the V5C then it cannot be a minibus. If it is a "minibus" on the V5C then you run into problems with getting insurance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Detourer said:
Hi RDB

Like I say, not going to get draw into the "argument" side of all this.

My licence says CI. My vehicle has a GVM of 10.600kg + conversion body, not sure of total weight but I may if I see one put it on a wbridge. Can I drive it........legal?
DVLA say NO

I say NO

George says YES

It's your licence :wink:
 
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