7.5 tonne licence
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And hey you lads.......George and Jonathan
Both your opinions are VALID...........and this thread/issue (just look at the "views") is an important one and one that could and probably will effect a large numbers of Mhome owners in the future.
Why not, as very articulate and informed individuals, do us all a favour and put your heads together and tackle this issue, again, with those in suits. Get some written replies from insurance co's etc etc. Ok, probably been done before ah George, but it would be nice for us all to see and call upon simple reply letters. If they don't respond I will take it as a conformation of an agreed question.
And, if you two do ever meet I will "second" Jonathan.......only because he is younger and therefore probably stronger.......
Both your opinions are VALID...........and this thread/issue (just look at the "views") is an important one and one that could and probably will effect a large numbers of Mhome owners in the future.
Why not, as very articulate and informed individuals, do us all a favour and put your heads together and tackle this issue, again, with those in suits. Get some written replies from insurance co's etc etc. Ok, probably been done before ah George, but it would be nice for us all to see and call upon simple reply letters. If they don't respond I will take it as a conformation of an agreed question.
And, if you two do ever meet I will "second" Jonathan.......only because he is younger and therefore probably stronger.......
Putting the legal side of it all to bed :wink:
We all seem to agree that it is important to ensure a driver is competent to drive the vehicle in question.
For a new driver there is a clear path as set out by the DVLA (regardless of wether it is law or not).
As the roads get busier and more complex the government has implemented driving tests and licences.
In the distant past anyone could drive anything and they did not have to sit a test or hold a licence. Over time basic testing was introduced.
Besides the actual driving of a vehicle there is alot of knowledge required. There are hundreds of road signs and road markings which have appeared. Different speed limits for different vehicles on different types of road.
As a teacher of car drivers I do not teach LGV PCV topics to learner car drivers. They learn how to drive a car, their licence as per the DVLA allows them to drive cars and small vans. If they wish to drive a larger vehicle, even if it is permitted by the exemption list, they are advised to have additional training.
Generally larger vehicles are operated by organisations such as charities who follow government recommendations in order to qualify for exemptions. A play bus for example could be driven on a B licence provided a certain amount of training is provided to each driver..
Having undergone LGV and PCV training and testing myself, I know how much more must be learned to pass the theory tests and the practical tests. The scope of the theory tests for larger vehicles covers different subjects to those found in the car theory test. It does cover legal aspects which are not relevant to motorhome drivers but most of the theory is relevant to driving a large motorhome.
It would be very alarming if a 17 year old passed their car test and took to the road in their parents 14 tonne RV that same day. That would just be lunacy.
We all seem to agree that it is important to ensure a driver is competent to drive the vehicle in question.
For a new driver there is a clear path as set out by the DVLA (regardless of wether it is law or not).
As the roads get busier and more complex the government has implemented driving tests and licences.
In the distant past anyone could drive anything and they did not have to sit a test or hold a licence. Over time basic testing was introduced.
Besides the actual driving of a vehicle there is alot of knowledge required. There are hundreds of road signs and road markings which have appeared. Different speed limits for different vehicles on different types of road.
As a teacher of car drivers I do not teach LGV PCV topics to learner car drivers. They learn how to drive a car, their licence as per the DVLA allows them to drive cars and small vans. If they wish to drive a larger vehicle, even if it is permitted by the exemption list, they are advised to have additional training.
Generally larger vehicles are operated by organisations such as charities who follow government recommendations in order to qualify for exemptions. A play bus for example could be driven on a B licence provided a certain amount of training is provided to each driver..
Having undergone LGV and PCV training and testing myself, I know how much more must be learned to pass the theory tests and the practical tests. The scope of the theory tests for larger vehicles covers different subjects to those found in the car theory test. It does cover legal aspects which are not relevant to motorhome drivers but most of the theory is relevant to driving a large motorhome.
It would be very alarming if a 17 year old passed their car test and took to the road in their parents 14 tonne RV that same day. That would just be lunacy.
Ha Helen
got YA
the two best drivers I know are women, which is not to say I agree with the myth that women are better drivers, this came about due to lower premiums being offered to women drivers aha I hear you cry
but the simple truth is that Mile for mile driven women have more accidents, BUT due to the fact that women tend to drive at lower speed than men the damage to life and property tends to be far lower.
End result is while they have more accidents, the net cost is still lower.
So the reality is that they are worse drivers (by number of accidents per mile driven) they are much less destructive.
Safer drivers hmmm yes you are much less likely to die in a vehicle driven by a female or be killed as a third party.
got YA
the two best drivers I know are women, which is not to say I agree with the myth that women are better drivers, this came about due to lower premiums being offered to women drivers aha I hear you cry
but the simple truth is that Mile for mile driven women have more accidents, BUT due to the fact that women tend to drive at lower speed than men the damage to life and property tends to be far lower.
End result is while they have more accidents, the net cost is still lower.
So the reality is that they are worse drivers (by number of accidents per mile driven) they are much less destructive.
Safer drivers hmmm yes you are much less likely to die in a vehicle driven by a female or be killed as a third party.
Hi all
The best that can be said legally, is that it doesnt appear to be ilegal to the extent that the law is a total mess and they are Highley unlikely to be able to make any charges stick. The problem they have (prosecution) is that courts will only apply the law as written (we can all see what they meant the law to say, but it doesnt actually say what they mean, Due to the Goods vehicle references in the law) although all the DVLA docs are careful to avoid using Goods Vehicle now. If they point you to the law, all over 7.5 tonnes are described and refered to as Heavy Goods Vehicles, Goods and burden for Trade and in connection with a business. all of which as not a thing to do with motorcaravans.
This mess is I believe why they dont even try to prosecute, which in turn means the insurance companies dont want to be the long winded expensive test case (but thats me guessing at their motives)
Initially DVLA will send out leaflets, which clearly state that its their interpretation of the LAW, when you ask for clarification of which statute they quote the Licencing law that Jonathon listed a few pages back, this is were it gets complex and boring, because that is an amendment to a previous law it doesnt completely supercede it, when you point out the fact that it refers to GOODS VEHICLES they say that a motor caravan is a goods vehicle.
The earlier legislation refers to construction and use dept as the arbitors of what a vehicle is and they say that a motorcaravan is NOT a goods vehicle. THIS is the most important word to remember.
So the legislation doesnt cover motorcaravans (with regard to licencing)
The only court case that ever came close the prosecution withdrew after 3 appearances and 2 Adjournments and awarded all costs to Travelworld citing lack of evidence, this was clearly not the case and if you ring and ask (CPS) you can tell they are uncomfortable talking about it, especially when you mention all the evidence that is still there signed statements etc which would be more than enough to convict if there was actually a law to cover it.
Every area you look at says its not HGV or commercial, Tachographs, speed limitors, lane restrictions, operators licences, HGV testing, even in the real world as you have found, insurance companies are happy and do not try to avoid paying out even on substantial claims, The local traffic police legal dept just say to send them on their way
The reality is not because they are fully legal, more that they cant find a way of proving its against the law.
I think we all know what they want the law to mean, its just that it doesnt conform to what they want it to mean. This means that it would not stad up in court.
Sorry if that repeats a bit had to do a job in between.
Ray what it all means is that no-one will stick their neck out and confirm in writing
George
The best that can be said legally, is that it doesnt appear to be ilegal to the extent that the law is a total mess and they are Highley unlikely to be able to make any charges stick. The problem they have (prosecution) is that courts will only apply the law as written (we can all see what they meant the law to say, but it doesnt actually say what they mean, Due to the Goods vehicle references in the law) although all the DVLA docs are careful to avoid using Goods Vehicle now. If they point you to the law, all over 7.5 tonnes are described and refered to as Heavy Goods Vehicles, Goods and burden for Trade and in connection with a business. all of which as not a thing to do with motorcaravans.
This mess is I believe why they dont even try to prosecute, which in turn means the insurance companies dont want to be the long winded expensive test case (but thats me guessing at their motives)
Initially DVLA will send out leaflets, which clearly state that its their interpretation of the LAW, when you ask for clarification of which statute they quote the Licencing law that Jonathon listed a few pages back, this is were it gets complex and boring, because that is an amendment to a previous law it doesnt completely supercede it, when you point out the fact that it refers to GOODS VEHICLES they say that a motor caravan is a goods vehicle.
The earlier legislation refers to construction and use dept as the arbitors of what a vehicle is and they say that a motorcaravan is NOT a goods vehicle. THIS is the most important word to remember.
So the legislation doesnt cover motorcaravans (with regard to licencing)
The only court case that ever came close the prosecution withdrew after 3 appearances and 2 Adjournments and awarded all costs to Travelworld citing lack of evidence, this was clearly not the case and if you ring and ask (CPS) you can tell they are uncomfortable talking about it, especially when you mention all the evidence that is still there signed statements etc which would be more than enough to convict if there was actually a law to cover it.
Every area you look at says its not HGV or commercial, Tachographs, speed limitors, lane restrictions, operators licences, HGV testing, even in the real world as you have found, insurance companies are happy and do not try to avoid paying out even on substantial claims, The local traffic police legal dept just say to send them on their way
The reality is not because they are fully legal, more that they cant find a way of proving its against the law.
I think we all know what they want the law to mean, its just that it doesnt conform to what they want it to mean. This means that it would not stad up in court.
Sorry if that repeats a bit had to do a job in between.
Ray what it all means is that no-one will stick their neck out and confirm in writing
George
Unfortunately for a B licence holder it does specify what can be driven though.
The DVLA have reproduced word for word the SI in question.
Which brings us back to it doesnt say you can't.
The definition of a B licence is upto 3500KG, 8 passenger seats.
hi all,
my license (categories a and e), which i obtained in 1989 when i was 17 (passed 1st time
), says that i can drive ANY VEHICLE which is not in several mentioned categories such as motorbikes, road rollers etc. but it also says i need a further license to drive a heavy goods vehicle or a large passenger vehicle.
i know what jonathan is saying; these days you need a piece of paper to wipe you own ar*e legally, but the structure of our legal rights and courts system is based on the fact that we are free to do whatever we choose as long as it is not proscibed by law. if the law says i need a license to drive a motor vehicle then the license that i have allows me to drive any vehicle which is not expressly excepted by the wording i have just quoted.
otherwise the legal document that is my license has been made invalid without anyone telling me even though it says its valid till 2041.
i can't speak for anyone else's license as i know my girlfriend's says different (she only got it in 2001, 3rd time lucky(!)).
john.
my license (categories a and e), which i obtained in 1989 when i was 17 (passed 1st time
), says that i can drive ANY VEHICLE which is not in several mentioned categories such as motorbikes, road rollers etc. but it also says i need a further license to drive a heavy goods vehicle or a large passenger vehicle.i know what jonathan is saying; these days you need a piece of paper to wipe you own ar*e legally, but the structure of our legal rights and courts system is based on the fact that we are free to do whatever we choose as long as it is not proscibed by law. if the law says i need a license to drive a motor vehicle then the license that i have allows me to drive any vehicle which is not expressly excepted by the wording i have just quoted.
otherwise the legal document that is my license has been made invalid without anyone telling me even though it says its valid till 2041.
i can't speak for anyone else's license as i know my girlfriend's says different (she only got it in 2001, 3rd time lucky(!)).
john.
Hi John
It is a very grey area isn't it. The feeling on here is that you need the license. I was talking to a dealer the other day and he said a motorhome was not an HGV and so nobody has and probably will not get prosecuted for driving one over 7.5 ton. He was however trying to sell me a 10 ton vehicle and on my license it does state not exceeding 7.5 ton
stew
It is a very grey area isn't it. The feeling on here is that you need the license. I was talking to a dealer the other day and he said a motorhome was not an HGV and so nobody has and probably will not get prosecuted for driving one over 7.5 ton. He was however trying to sell me a 10 ton vehicle and on my license it does state not exceeding 7.5 ton
stew
7.5t or more
HI,i have just converted a 7.5 ton box lorry into a camper,i took it to my local mot station who made it tacho exempt and mot'd it as a motorhome on there computer,next day i insured it with the reg number and the insurance company accepted it as a moterhome.....so im driving it with a car licence(my licence covers me up to c1+c1e)but what im saying is it only takes the mot station to change the use on there computer these days.
HI,i have just converted a 7.5 ton box lorry into a camper,i took it to my local mot station who made it tacho exempt and mot'd it as a motorhome on there computer,next day i insured it with the reg number and the insurance company accepted it as a moterhome.....so im driving it with a car licence(my licence covers me up to c1+c1e)but what im saying is it only takes the mot station to change the use on there computer these days.
i meant can the mot station change the usage?
why did my insurance company accept it?
and can i now convert it more?
2007 Fiat Ducato Ace Siena 2.2 100 Multijet, Keighley, Still in Gods County.
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44,606 Posts
I believe it will be tested as presented, if it walks like a duck etc, you now need to get the V5 changed to "motor caravan"
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2 Posts
Any updates on this thread?
Any updates on this thread?
2007 Fiat Ducato Ace Siena 2.2 100 Multijet, Keighley, Still in Gods County.
Joined
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44,606 Posts
Hi and welcome.
Might be easier for you to ask a question it's 7 year old thread, something may have changed since then.
2007 Fiat Ducato Ace Siena 2.2 100 Multijet, Keighley, Still in Gods County.
Joined
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44,606 Posts
There's a echo in here.
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