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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

We used the Generator this weekend for the first time to top up whilst away from site. (Kippor 2000)

My Polarity Tester showed it has having No Earth. I have seen the "Earth Screw" on the unit and presume this is what causes the Earth Fault as I hadn't connected it.

I found some speaker wire and connected it to the "Earth Screw" and used a large peg from the awning driven into the ground.

This still gives me an earth fault. I recall reading that Earth on a MH is to the chassis? Is this correct? Do I have to connect the "Earth Screw"to the Chassis?

All help appreciated.

Cheers
 

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earth

Kev, you need a metal tent peg, a short length of single strand wire, connect wire to both genny and tent peg push tent peg into ground

Personly I have only used this method once thrity years ago then lost the wire/peg :lol: :lol:

Les :wink: :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: earth

tinkering said:
Kev, you need a metal tent peg, a short length of single strand wire, connect wire to both genny and tent peg push tent peg into ground

Personly I have only used this method once thrity years ago then lost the wire/peg :lol: :lol:

Les :wink: :wink:
lol, thanks for the info. I found another recent post regarding this and it seemed there was no definate answer (more arguing about the thread rather than helping). I was beginning to think I shouldn't have posted it.

So is it OK to use it without the Earth Wire? I am not sure how a generator work.

CHEERS
 

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Kev

You don't /you do need a earth, well that was the answer. the reason you got no response is this subject was done to death a week or so ago.
IMHO if you needed one the generator would have the largest sticking on it saying so

loddy
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi,

Thanks given for the info, much appreciated as always. I will continue to use it without the Earth Lead (which may at the current rate will be circa 4 or 5 times per year).

out of interest: Who is Kev ? :roll:

(I did see the other thread but it turned into more of an "argument rather than info" thread. I didn't know which info to take in and which to ignore, as there was nothing conclusive).

THANKS AGAIN
 

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What do your generator instructions say?

I am reluctant to give advice that I wouldn't follow myself.

There is a problem for anyone giving advice about serious electrical matters like earthing we don't know exactly how your system is wired. What would be safe on one van might kill you on another.

That is why the thread got so involved and if you think that it was unhelpful you should see similar threads on professional electrical engineer forums.

In my view using a generator connected to a vehicle is intrinsically unsafe unless you really know what you are doing but I imagine thousands of people do it without a problem or care.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
sallytrafic said:
What do your generator instructions say?

I am reluctant to give advice that I wouldn't follow myself.

There is a problem for anyone giving advice about serious electrical matters like earthing we don't know exactly how your system is wired. What would be safe on one van might kill you on another.

That is why the thread got so involved and if you think that it was unhelpful you should see similar threads on professional electrical engineer forums.

In my view using a generator connected to a vehicle is intrinsically unsafe unless you really know what you are doing but I imagine thousands of people do it without a problem or care.
Hi Frank,

I bought it from another "forumite" and didn't get any instructions. That said, I will now try and locate some downloadable one's. They must be available.

CHEERS
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
From the users manual:

6. GENERATOR USE

Be sure to ground the generator when the connected equipment is grounded.
■ To prevent electrical shock from faulty appliances, the generator should be grounded.
Connect a length of heavy cable between the generator's ground terminal and an external
ground source.
 

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Ian_n_Suzy said:
From the users manual:

6. GENERATOR USE

Be sure to ground the generator when the connected equipment is grounded.
■ To prevent electrical shock from faulty appliances, the generator should be grounded.
Connect a length of heavy cable between the generator's ground terminal and an external
ground source.
ground the generator when the connected equipment is grounded

that is the area of the problem/arguement. Both should be grounded or neither now a lot depends on how your vehicle is wired.
 

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Ian_n_Suzy said:
From the users manual:

6. GENERATOR USE

Be sure to ground the generator when the connected equipment is grounded.
■ To prevent electrical shock from faulty appliances, the generator should be grounded.
Connect a length of heavy cable between the generator's ground terminal and an external
ground source.
I came across this problem some time ago and spoke to an electrician who said that if the appliance was properly grounded then the genny should be properly grounded however he did say that it was ok to use the genny as it was. I can't remember the rationale as it was some time ago but the bottom line was that this was normal practice.

Clive Mott is something of a guru in the genny/electrical department I wonder if he has any comments?

Pete
 

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The subject of earthing, generators, and MH's is a very wide field. The main objective is to prevent any material or goods connected to or near by an electrical circuit becoming dangerous through the presence of electricity at higher voltages and power than normal, or present where it should not be! So it is for safety of users as well as prevention of damage to electrical equipment that earthing is a neccessity.
8O 8O
First, I suggest you read the generator manual carefully. :roll:
Some generators have a 'floating' earth, and do not need earthing unless the apparatus being powered specifically states that it must be earthed for safe use. If the genny has this feature you can use it without further ado, but be aware that if you connect it via the hook-up socket the earth protection i devices in the MH circuits will probably not function.
Normally an MH is earthed via the hook-up lead, and this permits the protective devices in the MH function correctly.

There are two ways to use a generator,
1/ via the hook-up socket.
2/ directly connected to the kit you want to power.

So, if the manual states that the generator has a floating earth, then the protective devices in the generator will take care of faults, but if plugged to the hook-up socket the earth safety devices installed in the MH electrical system may not work as the neccessary earth is not present.

Coupled directly to a bit of kit, the generator should be OK as it is, unless it is pouring with rain, or similar; and unless on a metal table or other conducting surface.

For other generators, and for full peace of mind, and to allow any earth fault protection devices in an MH to operate correctly when connected via the hook-up, a generator needs to be earthed. The connection should be of not less than 10mm2, and preferably braided, copper cable; and connected to a decent earth rod. Commercial ones consisting of copper clad steel, that can be connected in long lengths, are the purpose made items. But a sensibly sized good conducting chunk of metal will do as a temporary earth. A piece of 20mm galvanised steel conduit, or equal sized steel heating pipe, about 600mm long is a reasonable size. Knock it into the ground as far as it will go without too much trouble (If on site ask the warden first as if you go through an underground cable or pipe you will not be popular). Use a jubilee clip or earth bond strap to connect the cable to the pipe, and get a cable lug of the correct size for the generator earth terminal put on the other end of the cable.

One word of caution, do not use a generator and hook-up together on the same electrical system as this may lead to all sorts of electrical problems, as well as being illegal in the EU unless special means of earthing and circuit protection are installed. And that's another story.

This is a long note on a difficult subject. Look at it this way, if the manufacturer has put an earth point on the generator it has not been put there as an ornament!! :?
 

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Never bothered with an earth myself and I use a gennie at least 6hrs a day, every day. When I wired the van it was effectively to 16thEdition rules, and I bought a huge copper spike from Screwfix for a tenner to complete the installation. Never used it, though it anyone comes through my door uninvited...
 

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GENERATOR EARTHING

The earth connection on the generator casing is unlikely to be of much use to you as its only connected to the exposed metalwork.
Portable generators are intended to be used to power ONE bit of portable equipment, like a drill, grinder or whatever. In this scenario a fully isolated output from the generator is quite safe. Nothing connected to earth anywhere so even if you touched one of the conductors you would not get a shock.
The situation is totally different if the output of the generator feeds more than one appliance or motorhome. In the motorhome situation it can potentially feed all the mains equipment plus anything one might connect to the socket outlets.
In this scenario proper earthing is the only way that the protective gear (RCD) in the motorhome can be made to work.
The generator needs to be configured to emulate the normal mains supply. The normal mains supply will have the NEUTRAL connection bonded to EARTH at the local sub-station. With this any leakage current will find a way back to the sub-station via earth, cause the RCD to trip and switch off the supply.
To emulate the mains the NEUTRAL at the generator needs to be connected to that EARTH connection on the generator which shoud also be connected to a stout earth spike driven well into damp ground.
If you do this then the vans electrical system will operate as normal.

If your generator is coupled to more than one van then its even more important that the earthing is correct.

Having said all of that most people don,t bother and don,t understand.
 

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Thats why the Field Day genny has four RCDs, four 16 amp outlets and a stonking stainless steel earth spike. And Noel has a leaky power supply as one RCD will confirm.!

With caravans and motorhomes for most ignorance is bliss. However the tel tale indicators fitted to some modern motorhomes has made people ask the question.

For an example of how to connect a genny look at the temporary camp sites at the NEC set up by the big clubs.

C.
 

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Its quite right to say that for proper protection the earth should be tied to the neutral (of the generating source) - for instance by doing this if a live wire were to become lose and touch a metal surface which has been correctly earthed it would effectively be like having a live to neutral fault, this would cause enough current to flow to operate a protective device such as a fuse / mcb / RCD.

With out the above someone could then touch the metal surface and make a current path between that surface and earth (the path being through your body and thats going to hurt)

I am going to research this further for my own interest - earth faults are a tricky science, I have never really given them much thought with regard to MH's on generator supplies - but this topic has made me think twice now
 

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generator earth

what generator do you have most have a three pin plug for you to connect to earthing is straight back to the core of the genny but this will show up on some systems as no earth present as the earhting system on a genny is different to house systems. and earth spike is added protection the furhter into the ground the better and if you are lucky enough to be somewhere that is really dry put some water down the peg as you drive it into the ground.
 

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Earth problem

The problem you are seeing is due to the fact that the earth connection on the front panel is not actually connected to the electrical earth on the machine.
All Kipor Suitcase machines have a floating earth with the alternator supply "floating". if you wish to get rid of an apparent earth fault or polarity warning on your charger have a qualified person connect a link between the NEUTRAL and the EARTH at the back of the electrical sockets. YOU MUST ALWAYS use an earth spike but this will resolve your issues and is the correct thing to do in this situation.
I run a chinese generator repair shop www.smallplantrepairs.co.uk and deal with this situation all the time.
 
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