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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 1996 410D with 185/75/R14 wheels annd found the engine seemed to be screaming at 50mph. I took the plunge have just put 609 wheels on instead (225/75/R16). I'm now able to comfortably do 55mph now with out the engine sounding like it's going to take off.

Question is!! My van did have twin wheels on the back but I decided to only put singles of the bigger tire on. I have them fitted so that they dish out, that is, I have left the inside wheels off so as to maximise the wheel base width. Do you know if this is a bad idea or will it make any difference? (the van is only 2,700kgs). Would it be advisable to get the tracking/toe in re-aligned after changing to the 609 wheels?

Dave
 

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twins

The only Single wheel you can replace double wheels with is a Super Single. And I doubt these are available/compatible with your vehicle.

The van may only be 2700kG's. But what were the original tyres sizes and LI (load index).

Mercedes did make a 2006 Sprinter 4600kG with Super Single 285/65 R 16 C tyres. However, as far as I know there were issues with these and they were dropped.

TM
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
HI TM.
The original wheels were 185/65/R14. I've no idea what the LI was. I still have the R14's out back would it say on them? I'll check them tomorrow. I thought the idea of the double wheel was for weight and as I was not going to be carrying loads then it would be okay.
 

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your mad !!!!!!!!!!!

. can i say this ,!! :eek:

you must put the wheels back on , or you may be in trouble .the reason you have a twin wheel is to maximise spread , i use the the 609 wheel on my s700 , 410 . but i did not go single it would damage the shaft bearings , if you must you will have to have a specialist wheel , these are some time,s alloy .or the bearings will give out , you have twin for weight reason so your weight would be about 4 ton to 4 1/2 ton the single is for weight of less but your chassis is made up for twin if you have accident , insurance will void your motorhome because you have changed the design , so you must tell dvla , but i would advise this put them back on ., . tyre size best for your with all 6 tyre,s are the 205 /75. 16 . and to do this you must do some work on rear springs , i think i posted this topic a few years ago
when i did our,s to the s660 1st, then to the s700, 2 years ago . /
you will definately paying out in the long run if you don,t get caught !.
we had never in all our years in the work shop done this ,

all the best , denton.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Merc 410D Rear Springs

Hey Denton,
What did you do with the rear springs. coul dyou did out that post you mentioned?

Tried to put second wheel on but it's too wide and is touching the rear springs.

Dave.
 

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springs !!!

hi ! dave.

sorry to answer so slow , been off the net have been doing the camper for our long drive through europe in june :D .
at the moment your camper is like a boat on the road with these 14, wheels on and is a pig on the roads on corners lean dont they when you put these 16" wheels on it will be a hugger on the road like glue and you can feel absolute confidence with her now you will be shocked i mean this no slow corners any more i am not a hooligan on the road neither too old for that sort of thing lol!
sorry again dave ! the answer to the springs are you the kind if guy that has get up and do your self !. it is about 2 hour,s work over the pit , or 4 hours, under axle stands good one,s but safe . i will answer 1 question for you now you can get super singles for your camper and they are allumimium all round how exp! do not know you can look around in here cannot for the life of me remember the web address gut they are german or norway , all i can remember about it was you order all your accessories awning toilet accessories ect, ect, their might be a connection with omnistor ? ,,

right the springs , germans have always over compensated with every part on the vehicle which is very good where mercedes say max weight is say 1 ton max in fact it will exceed 2 ton , where you might say i need a 6 " wide peace of metal to hold the weight, germans will say no! i want 8 " when 6" is completely acceptable they go over the top . so they last forever . the way you proceed with this is. some one confidant with a 240 a/c 6" grinder a chalk thin chalk that is now the inner wheel will not fit because it will touch the spring and with the outer one on this will touch the outer arch !.
now put the inner wheel on and tighten the wheel so it will be pressed against the spring ! you do not need to go all the way with this i mean as long as it is against the spring that is fine on the inside you are looking at the wheel pressed to the spring now chalk on the spring where the rubber is pressed from the tread side to the bead of the road wheel take the wheel off and you will see a curved chalk line on the spring at the deepest part of the chalk mark you might have 4 mm now start your grinder and grind out until you are down the the chalk in fact grind until the chalk disappears put your road wheel on and the outer wheel on tighten them up and turn the wheel check for clearance as long as you can slip between the wheel and spring some thing like gasket which is about 2mm turn wheel and look for snags or you could chalk the area that has been grinded, wheel on. and turn if the chalk is showing on the tyre wall you need a little more out . but remember this if you put a tyre on like i have which is 215x75 you cannot exceed that width as you have grinded for this size do not go wider stick to tyre size, wheel height is not an issue with this model i must say i have the 16 " wheel and i carry a bit of weight the tyre is up inside the arch safe does more than it is said on the tin if you get my meaning 100% safe to do . i will post some picture,s of mine for you how mine look my weight is unladen 3.6kg max 4.6kg it is the best way around this issue years ago they used 205 tyre high wall tyre,s to get more speed , i did this to my old model the s660 about 4-5 years ago then bought the s700 so i did it again save a lot diesel if you have driven these a long time if you have the old 617 engine 2.9 you can also advance the pump to get better mpg and more power and lower rev"s again .

so said to much again hope it helps , all x/- lol,

ok dave hope this has not frightened you to much , but you have a bad problem running as you are now it is an accident waiting to happen really . your rear bearing are now under weight pressure and your rear shoe brake,s will not expand as they should normally i would put the 4 back on and do this to sort the problem lot,s of people have done this in the past .

but hey ! good luck and have fun it,s easy !
take care , denton. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Denton,
I've no problem taking on a job like this. If you have photos I'd love to see them. You can mail them to me if you like dflambe @ gmailcom.

I have 225 tyres, do you think they are too wide ?

Is 2mm clearance enough?

Dave.
 

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Dead dodgy in my view!! The manufacturers, with all their knowledge and professional expertise, have designed and constructed the vehicle for twin rear wheels yet you feel you know better than them, so on little more than a whim you have decided to fit singles ???

I would imagine you will be unable to get insurance as the insurers will say its been modified beyond the manufacturers spec, I would also expect you to be in all sorts of trouble when it comes to MOT time.

(personal view, I appreciate you will feel differently but just stop and think exactly what you have done)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hello Mrplodd,
Firstly I did not "on a whim" decide to fit single wheels on a vehicle which I know was designed by probably one of the best automobile manufacturers in the world. And of course I don't feel I know better than them and frankly I'm astounded that you would be so stupid as to really think that I would do so.

I started my journey of the wheels through extensive internet recearch, contacting people who have already changed the wheels on the mercedes models in question. I have also spoken with the road Safety Authority, Department of Enviroment (MOT) (See attached) and Mercededs dealership here in ireland. All have agreed that as you say the vehicle was originally designed and constructed with twin rear wheels for the express intention of carrying loads, the original vehicle was designed to carry a 4,500kgs load (4.429 UK ton). As a camper it weighs in at 2,800kgs (2.756 UK ton) and will never again have to carry such weights. All agreed that running as I am on 4 wheels is not a dangerous situation, will not cause additional stress or strain on the bearings or studs and will be acceptable for MOT testing.
The single tyres I have temporarilly fitted have a load index of 118 each which means they are rated at 1,320kgs (1.300 UK ton) per tyre. Four tyres =5280kgs (5.197 UK ton). As I stated earlier the van currently weighs in at a gross weight of 2,800kgs. As they say in the US "Do the math"

Despite all this I still want to fit twin wheels on the vehicle because I would feel happier with twin wheels. This thread you commented on is one of a number of posts I have engaged with on various websites purly to gather information and advice. Fortunately everyone I have corresponded with up to know have been very helpful and I'll also admit, generally against the idea of modifying the vehicle by running on singles.

However you're the fist condecending person I've come across. Maybe next time think or ask before you write.

Then again maybe you didn't mean it that way at all and I'm being condecending!!
If so I appologise!! :lol: :roll: :crazy:
 

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I think the only flaw in any argument you have put forward, is not so much the quantity of wheels or indeed the size, I would be a little concerned as the positioning of the tyres on the road compared to where the twin wheels would be or where a single wheels axle would be, basically the rear wheel track will be I should think about 50 to 75mm narrower than either of the other two setups.

I think if I were to do this I'd simply go for a different rear axle with different ratios to accomplish what youwere after in the first place, possible from a 3.5t Sprinter if that gave the desired rear wheel track, or have a different diff fitted to the original axle to give a higher gearing.
 

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Hi Dave,
I have fitted 16" Merc steel rims to my Hymer S670 on Mercedes 410D Chassis cowl (engine type 602 5 cylinder 2.9 litre diesel ) 1991 Model 4600kg GVW (6.7m long A class with rear bed and/or seating )

I got the 7nos Merc 609 steel rims from a commercial scrapyard in North Manchester with old, worn out 225/75/R16 tyres on.

A trial fitting showed these wide tyres fouled both front and rear leaf springs.
I arranged to fit 7 nos new Avon Avanza 185/75//R16C (104 rating = 900kgs per tyre) (the old tyres were R14" / 185 width )
They all fitted fine and our local fitters carefully checked at full lock and with bounce checks that nothing fouled anywhere on front and rear chassis.

To date nothing has grounded /touched/scraped on the road or on any of the rough tracks that I have used the van on. The 104 weight ratings are fine for my van weight ( 4600KG)

I now get exactly 63mph (sat nav checked) at 3000rpm on the 2.9 litre (non turbo) 602 engine which, for us, is a comfortable cruising speed

Fuel consumption is around 22mpg for my driving style on the open road. It’s a lot less around town.

I have also installed an A class noise barrier kit from Steve at noisekiller.co.uk (This really helped reduce noise in our van, as there is only a single plywood skin under the original front Hymer dash)

I cleaned all the surface rust off the 7 wheels and rattle-can primed and silver sprayed them, finished off with 2 spray cans of clear laquer over the silver. (Halfords) – still nice a shiny and clean after a year

The wheels appearnce still looked ugly with bare nuts, so Motoramahull supplied me with lovely stainless trims which fit the 609 wheels exactly and set the van off nicely

So if your wide tyres are good and serviceable then you might have to choose to buy narrower width ones or get the angle grinder out on the rear springs. Be aware they could be weakened by this grinding and snap eventually

(I have a number of fully captioned, detailed photos of my installed wheels for anyone’s info, but find the rigors of uploading on this site too time consuming)

pm me instead

Regards,

Ian
 

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hello again , it seems to be ??????????

hi to the one,s of wisdom ,

perhaps the only thing they know of an mot , is that they know nothing of the , issue,s at hand .

but be my guest , ask a professional , i had worked in mercedes garage,s past workshop this is where the work is done by those who know what they are doing ,
so to hand the job , of 609 tyre s the 225 tyre no do not use this tyre , the width is far to great , as you will need at least 3-5 mm between tyre at it,s point nearest the spring , in the mot station the wheel must not touch the tyre at all , all bus s have maybe 5mm .

the springs are tested by mercedes to exert more than 50% of it,s breakage point , mercedes or german manufacturing is far superior to that of british since 1969. german steel is tempered blindingly superior . it is an art of engineering . that the germans are the leaders apart from norway . just behind . but those who in here are not experienced with this knowledge , keep your tip toes without any thought to what you may or poss! not know , . i am away for 6 weeks in europe doing my camping in the best of the best hymer mercedes , not to upset others with their campers fiat ect, ect, good they may be . but i have a pearl , with out doubt , so sorry to offend not intentionally , sorry . but i do stipulate , use the 215 tyre size , once this has been done you will have to adjust the steering stops for turning circle, simple this is 10 min max, after all has been done take it to the mot, or ministry of transport depot i go for mine , where the hgv vehicle,s are done for those who think this is a :roll: mad .
do not worry i have now done over or about 12,000. miles using my 215 gauge wheel size fully laden too 4600kgs , and we are going down the alps too ! :D
so sorry for not getting back in touch with you about this , i will if i have time do photo tomorrow at camp site , for you . but as i said put tyre 215 on tighten until it pinch,s the the tyre , now chalk tight to the tyre and follow the tyre around leaving chalk line on spring just where you think it touch,s tyre , now take off tyre grind to the chalk line , do it nicely fit tyre back on turn wheel if you can if it is touching do again and keep on doing this until wheel is free , the spring by this time will have a very very slight curve where the tyre wall is and the max that will be missing from the will be about 5mm,
any way i will be watching in here for your reply and the one,s who know ??? well !!!!!!

take care every one have fun.
oh! by the way 205 changed now to 215 x75x16.
go for these andy , you will love it and put some some to sleep in here the no no! , lol, denton . :D
 

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Hi just thinking if the wheels foul by 4mm then surely you can get a set of 5mm spacers made up, racing boys use them all the time.
You may need longer studs but has to be a better solution than grinding the springs.
Just my take on it.
 

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NO! not so good !!

no sorry andy is it ,

no you need to take from the spring , reason is you need to clear the tyre from the spring , not space the hub from axle !, do as i said , even if you are not sure do as mentioned , tyre on 215 /225 if that is what you want , but hard is not the word to grind these springs they are hard , i mean hard , BUT ! do as said tyre on tighten to to spring , pencil a chalk line against the tyre dragging around the tyre leaving chalk line on spring , take tyre off , measure from edge to deepest part of chalk line . that is the line , let me know what measurement you have measured , would like to know . going off line after tonight dont know exactly back on leaving for the mountains in morning ,
did not take photo as i did say i would , too much to do today , but i promise will upload asap , hope this will help .
denton ,

p.s. no worries , but spacers no good as you have spring bowl type washers for the wheel alignment ,
. beside s this in not a boy racer job , !!
 

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It may be to late, but here's my pen'ith worth. I have a 1990 660 merc hymer, twin wheel. Was very slow.

As said before in this thread, the easiest way is 609 , 16 inch wheels (from 609 mini buses) with 205 tryes. This set up clears springs body work etc easily with plenty to spare.

BUT, 709 wheels have a slighly different offset and wont clear, even with 205 tyres, they touch the rear springs. Now heres the problem, my first set of 609 wheels bought from a breaker, turned out to be 709 wheels. They look the same and many breakers think they are the same, they aren't!

You have to get 609 wheels, not 709 and with 205 tyres, straight on, no mods, no worries about spacers , cutting springs etc.

And if you want more top speed, check your gearbox, there were 2 options available, standard and overdrive, the over drive giving you about 12 MPH extra in top, depending on wheel size.

I did both, now i cruise at 60 to 65MPH (sat nav checked) at a purr rather than a scream!

I wont bore everyone with gearbox information, if anybodies interested give me a message and i'll did out fact part numbers etc
 

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Hi merctoby,
Nostalgic post, I know..
I see your post here and was wondering if/how can I contact you,
I want to change 14" wheels to 16" on my 410D

Thanks,
Eran

galperin10 AT gmail DOT com
 
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