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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I'm confused. All I have researched suggests you HAVE to pay VAT in the UK. If you pay VAT in Germany first then you have to pay 2 lots of VAT (a big sum!) before providing proof to German dealer of UK VAT paid, whereupon they will refund German VAT in euros.

To avoid paying twice (a cashflow problem, but not a trivial one) one potential way is to provide the German dealer with a euro cheque for VAT which he won't cash (and might bounce if he did!) until he receives proof of UK VAT payment whereupon the cheque is ripped up. That is obviously at the dealer's discretion and mine won't.

The other way is to pay the UK VAT up front and provide proof to the German dealer who won't then charge you German VAT.

OK, sorted, so I checked this afternoon with the HMRC VAT helpline to ask about the mechanics of pre-paying VAT and was told I don't need to - if I provide them with proof on notification by the NOVA process I won't pay VAT twice.

Brilliant! Other than I don't believe the helpline and can't find anything to corroborate this statement on their VAT notices :-(

What say you?

Thanks,

Dave
 

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You have asked the organisation responsible for collecting VAT and then ask people who have no idea about the subject for their opinions of the official HMRC advice.

Why??

Surely you now have the definitive answer. (Don't you?)
 

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"To avoid paying twice (a cashflow problem, but not a trivial one) one potential way is to provide the German dealer with a euro cheque for VAT which he won't cash (and might bounce if he did!) until he receives proof of UK VAT payment whereupon the cheque is ripped up. That is obviously at the dealer's discretion and mine won't."

That system has been reported and used on here in the past

Dave you're the expert "searcher" :wink:

tony
 

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If you pay VAT in Germany you DO NOT have to pay VAT in the UK...fact

I lived there for years.

Only if you claim the VAT back from the Germans will you have to pay it in the UK....unless you don't bring it back into the UK straight away (I can't remember the time frame)

I have no idea what the VAT in Germany it at the mo so might work out cheaper (Normally does) to just pay German VAT
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, I am, and I'll try again Monday morning when the helpline opens. She was most insistent and indignant when I expressed doubt over the veracity of her advice.

Now I have searched some more I'll quote VAT Notice 728 Para 3.17:

"3.17 What if I paid tax in the Member State of supply?
The supply of the NMT should be zero-rated and the Member State of supply will have rules in place similar to those in the Notice. You will need to confirm the exact procedures to be followed with the supplier. Note that in some Member States the supplier may take a refundable deposit equivalent to the VAT which is refunded once you have paid the VAT in the destination state.

If you have been incorrectly charged VAT or are having difficulty in obtaining a refund of a deposit taken in another Member State this does no affect the liability to pay VAT in the UK on the acquisition. Recovery of the "overpayment" will need to be taken up with the suppler or the relevant tax authority in that Member State of supply."

It's the bit in bold that is screwing me, having to have cash for two lots of VAT. Tony the dealer refuses to accept a dummy cheque not worth the paper it's written on. Can't expect him to do otherwise.

Dave
 

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I think you're at the mercy of the dealer Dave, it's at his discretion and if he won't accept a post dated cheque etc. you have no alternative but to pay twice and then claim back from the dealer. I've had to do this in the past and as you say, it can cause a not insignificant cashflow problem.

In our case the dealer refunded us OK after about 2 weeks but I've seen reports here where a supplier has taken much longer to forward the refund. All down to careful selection of the dealer you purchase from I suspect.
 

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Yes you do have to pay 2 lots of tax if you decide you don't wish to pay German tax......the Germans will refund it.

This has been going on for years.......

Or just pay the German tax and NOT claim it back and you won't have to pay UK tax.....

Which one is the cheaper option??
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well it's the largest European dealer of Hymer & NB, Ken. And if your browser translates, this shows they have considerable export experience:
http://www.duerrwang.de/export_sales.htm

I have the dated sales invoice (and a Certificate of Conformity), so just need HMRC to take my easily calculated money and give me a receipt. However that simple thing can be so easily defeated by a jobsworth or "computer says no" :-(

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
bigcats, I'd love to pay the German VAT if it meant not having to pay UK VAT too. However I have a VAT helpline telling me I can do that, and a load of HMRC guidance and VAT notices telling me I can't.

If you can quote me something authoritative that tells me I can, that would be helpful! :)

Dave
 

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Never take as gospel any information given over the phone, ask them to put the info on headed paper and fax /email it to you, with the relevant name and status of that office.

cabby
 

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Hi Dave

Perhaps because they have extensive export experience they've been taken for a ride sometime in the past, once they've parted with the vehicle on export plates they have no control over where it ends up have they? Much safer to charge the German VAT as a precaution against non-payment of UK VAT - and of course it boosts their cashflow in the interim period doesn't it? :wink:

At least you've had the good sense to buy a N&B from a reputable dealer, nice van, Im jealous. :evil:

Regards to Alison.
 

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DABurleigh said:
bigcats, I'd love to pay the German VAT if it meant not having to pay UK VAT too. However I have a VAT helpline telling me I can do that, and a load of HMRC guidance and VAT notices telling me I can't.

If you can quote me something authoritative that tells me I can, that would be helpful! :)

Dave
If you buy anything within the EU and pay the tax on it...as you would you DO NOT have to pay tax in the country you reside in........hence why you can bring back as much **** and booze or anything from the EU

Its one of the benefits of being part of the EU.....pay tax in one and not have to pay it again.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/post/buying.htm

it clearly states it on HMRC website.....If you're ordering or sending purchased goods (other than alcohol and tobacco) to the UK from another EU country then it's just like shopping in the UK:
there is no Customs Duty payable
there is no import VAT payable, unless you're ordering or sending purchased goods from one of the EU 'Special Territories' and if the value of the goods is £15 or more, however from 1 April 2012 all merchandise sent to the UK from the Channel Islands is subject to VAT - see below
there is no Excise Duty to pay

As I said...You can buy anything from anywhere in the EU and NOT pay tax

The EU has to be good for something
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You make a sound point though I believe there are different (they call them Special) rules for importing vehicles :-(

Ken you will be even more annoyed to hear it's full air suspension and hydraulic levelers.

Ali says hi to you and Jen.

Dave
 

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It says on their website ref importing that they must be informed so that you have to pay UK tax OR accounted for (therefore already paid)
also

You don’t have to pay VAT if you’re importing a second-hand vehicle and the VAT was paid in another EU country - but you’ll still need to use NOVA.

Again off their website

I am importing a car from the EU, will I have to pay duty and VAT?
All new cars are liable to VAT on entry to the UK but duty will only apply if imported from outside the EU. The rate of duty liable will depend if the car purchased is new, second hand or classified as a car of historic interest.

Whilst it doesn't clearly tell you (well they want your money)

It does repeatedly say that when bought in the EU, UK tax is not due (as long as you paid that countries tax)
 

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DABurleigh said:
You make a sound point though I believe there are different (they call them Special) rules for importing vehicles :-(

Ken you will be even more annoyed to hear it's full air suspension and hydraulic levelers.

Ali says hi to you and Jen.

Dave
As I understand it vehicles are "special" in that VAT is payable when and where they are first registered (and export plates don't count).

So a s/hand vehicle is imported "tax paid".

However a new vehicle is imported "tax payable", but to cover themselves against fraud the dealer has to charge VAT until VAT is paid on registration here.
 
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