Yellow flame from oven not blue???- Newbie

18141 Views 17 Replies 12 Participants Last post by AberdeenAngus, May 19, 2009

122696

Discussion Starter · May 4, 2009

Hello everyone.

Well I asked a dumb question about electrics and got a load of help so here's one for the gas as well !! :roll:

We collected our Autostatus on Friday and everything is cool (so far)

We notice that the oven (a vanette) burns the gas yellow with a big flame, rather than blue. Seems to heat OK though.

Grill and hobs all burn OK ( a blue flame) so I think the gas is getting through OK but not sure why the oven is burning as a flame.

Even with everything else turned off, still a yellow flame?

Is it supposed to ??

Really appreciate all your help - Lin and I would be stuffed without it. :lol:

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

Rapide561

· #2 · May 4, 2009

Yellow flame

Hi

I think this may mean the combustion process is not taking place properly. On the other hand, it could be an old oven chip in the way of the flame. In the case of the former, please get the oven checked by a man in the know.

Russell

MrsW

· #3 · May 4, 2009

You've got the wrong mix of air and gas. If you are not competent to tackle it yourself (no offense intended, but if you ask a question like this I suspect gas is not your strong point) then I suggest you get it looked at by someone who can tackle gas competently. If you bought the MH from a dealer I would suggest you take it back to them for attention.

time-traveller

· #4 · May 4, 2009

Re: YELLOW FLAME FROM OVEN NOT BLUE???- NEWBIE

DAFO1711 said:
Hello everyone.

Well I asked a dumb question about electrics and got a load of help so here's one for the gas as well !! :roll:

We collected our Autostatus on Friday and everything is cool (so far)

We notice that the oven (a vanette) burns the gas yellow with a big flame, rather than blue. Seems to heat OK though.

Grill and hobs all burn OK ( a blue flame) so I think the gas is getting through OK but not sure why the oven is burning as a flame.

Even with everything else turned off, still a yellow flame?

Is it supposed to ??

Really appreciate all your help - Lin and I would be stuffed without it. :lol:

No, it's not supposed to - it should be a blue flame. Yellow indicates that the air-gas mixture is wrong - not enough air. It's probably making a lot of sooty deposit inside the oven too. I don't think it's dangerous - just inefficient.

Without doubt Rapide561 and Mrs W have given you the best advice - have it looked at by a competent fitter.

time-traveller

· #5 · May 11, 2009

This afternoon I had cause to look at my PM's, which is something I don't normally do as I always expect subjects and threads to be posted on the open forum for all to read. I always thought that PM's were for swapping personal info - negotiating private sales and such like - so as I don't usually have anything I want to sell - or buy - until today when I was sent one.

As well as the one I was expecting it came as a surprise to read an old one from aultymer in connection with this topic. I have no idea why it was PM'd instead of posted on the forum for everyone to read - especially considering the WARNING it contains. In these circumstances I would have thought it was in everyone's interest to read it. Perhaps it was a mistake PM'ing it - perhaps Aultymer had meant to post it but had 'finger trouble' - easy to make in this advanced electronic age.

Anyway for the benefit of ALL motorhomers and especially for DAFO1711 here is aultymer's pm ........ in the next post as I don't know how to amalgamate them ....

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time-traveller

· #6 · May 11, 2009

time-traveller said:
This afternoon I had cause to look at my PM's, which is something I don't normally do as I always expect subjects and threads to be posted on the open forum for all to read. I always thought that PM's were for swapping personal info - negotiating private sales and such like - so as I don't usually have anything I want to sell - or buy - until today when I was sent one.

As well as the one I was expecting it came as a surprise to read an old one from aultymer in connection with this topic. I have no idea why it was PM'd instead of posted on the forum for everyone to read - especially considering the WARNING it contains. In these circumstances I would have thought it was in everyone's interest to read it. Perhaps it was a mistake PM'ing it - perhaps Aultymer had meant to post it but had 'finger trouble' - easy to make in this advanced electronic age.

Anyway for the benefit of ALL motorhomers and especially for DAFO1711 here is aultymer's pm ........ in the next post as I don't know how to amalgamate them ....

Quote: ‹ Select ›
I don't think it's dangerous - just inefficient.

This is a good example of BAD information you get from well meaning but ill informed people on forums.
The flame you describe is producing carbon monoxide = deadly!!
Get it seen too before you use it again.

Good luck

alan.

TR5

· #7 · May 11, 2009

It is, at least a moral duty, and at best a legal duty, to assess the competence of the recipient of any information you may give, regarding working with gas, electricity, or indeed any other substance or operation that could or may cause injury or death!

Unless you know the person concerned and know otherwise, where someone has had to ask for advice on a subject, it would be reasonable to assume they may not be fully competent to carry out any work, or adjustments. In which case, advice should be restricted to recommending the recipient to seek professional assistance only.

As this is an open forum for all to see, even if the recipient for whom this advice is intended IS competent, others who can see this advice may not be.

This is not intended as a criticism of anyone, but good practise and common sense.

Assess first, be safe, not sorry!

122696

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 11, 2009

Dear All,

Thanks for all your comments and indeed warnings - Having a few problems getting anyone to look at it - does the gas fitter / engineer need to be registered for motorhomes ??

Problem is we live in rural mid wales - great for the M/H but a bugger to get a tradesman !!! :lol:

I will be sure not to use it until its fixed ( if I can ever get anyone)

Dave

TR5

· #9 · May 11, 2009

They must have a gas safe certification (supercedes c.o.r.g.i.) covering LPG.

JohnsCrossMotorHomes

· #10 · May 11, 2009

Not knowing the oven but using some knowledge, try lifting the gas burner up and see if it is seating properly, it may just be out of adjustment and not allowing enough air into the gas/air mixture.

Yellow flame indicates lack of oxygen.

Peter

Penquin

· #11 · May 11, 2009

And as has been pointed out before, the combustion process depends on having enough oxygen;

if plenty of oxygen;

propane + oxygen ---------> carbon dioxide + water

but if not enough you may get a mixture;

propane + some oxygen -----> carbon monoxide + carbon dioxide + water

the same goes for butane although the chemical formula of butane is slightly simpler, but it makes no difference to it's being burned and the products produced.

Carbon monoxide is odourless and colourless and locks onto the red pigment in blood blocking it from carrying oxygen around the body. Once locked on it is very difficult to remove and the body is starved of oxygen - this can lead to death. It is a silent killer.

Get it checked by a registered gas engineer for safety's sake. Do not use until it has been checked.

Check out these links;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6518095.stm

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/caravans.htm

one BBC, one American but VERY relevant as it deals with motorhomes and RV's.

Your local Trading Standards should have a list of registered engineers for LPG, or ask at a dealer that does habitation checks. Don't leave it till later.......

Dave

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time-traveller

· #12 · May 11, 2009

Penquin said:
And as has been pointed out before, the combustion process depends on having enough oxygen;

if plenty of oxygen;

propane + oxygen ---------> carbon dioxide + water

but if not enough you may get a mixture;

propane + some oxygen -----> carbon monoxide + carbon dioxide + water

the same goes for butane although the chemical formula of butane is slightly simpler, but it makes no difference to it's being burned and the products produced.

Carbon monoxide is odourless and colourless and locks onto the red pigment in blood blocking it from carrying oxygen around the body. Once locked on it is very difficult to remove and the body is starved of oxygen - this can lead to death. It is a silent killer.

Get it checked by a registered gas engineer for safety's sake. Do not use until it has been checked.

Check out these links;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6518095.stm

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/caravans.htm

one BBC, one American but VERY relevant as it deals with motorhomes and RV's.

Your local Trading Standards should have a list of registered engineers for LPG, or ask at a dealer that does habitation checks. Don't leave it till later.......

Dave

Now THAT is what I'd call a well intentioned and well informed advice from a member of this forum .....

Precisely why auldtymers pm should have been posted here ....
Glad I did so

123243

· #13 · May 18, 2009

yellow flame

Hi there
You have had a mixture of advice, the best being get it checked out by a competent person. I did my gas course as part of becoming a boat safety officer, and I could write reams of stuff. But as already pointed out, if you do it yourself and it goes wrong the consequences could expensive at best and be fatal at worst.

If you are struggling to find someone to do it, then it would be worth a shot telephoning around the boat yards, particularly those which offer boat hire and have their own hire fleets. I must emphasise earlier comments, yellow flame = danger.
Cheers Joe

Rainbow-Chasers

· #14 · May 18, 2009

Just get it serviced! Usually just dirty or blocked jets messing up the mixture - but get someone who is certified to do it, as if something happens down the line and you 'self serviced' it, they will not appreciate it!

ubuntu1

· #15 · May 18, 2009

yellow flame.

Yellow flame = bad

Blue flame = good.

If you have a yellow flame you need to get it looked at. Motorhomes and caravans are not industrial or domestic premises and therefore do not come under Corgi or Gas Safe as they are now. You will really struggle to find an LPG Gas Safe engineer but there are a lot of motorhome/caravan engineers that can help you out. Try the MCEA.

TR5

· #16 · May 18, 2009

Re: yellow flame.

ubuntu1 said:
Motorhomes and caravans are not industrial or domestic premises and therefore do not come under Corgi or Gas Safe as they are now.

I would question that comment!

Gas safety qualifications have many elements, including several covering various work and installations of LPG, and LPG appliances!

Some assessment elements (training) offered by a certified training centre. (extracted from their website)

Domestic Gas Safety Assessment Criteria - Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG)

Domestic Liquefied Petroleum Gas Safety Assessment Criteria -Specific Assessment Bank (B) and Changeover Assessments .

CABLP 1 - Exchange, Disconnect, Service, Repair, Breakdown and Commission
Domestic Gas Fired Mobile Cabinet Heaters
HTRLP - Install, Exchange, Disconnect, Service, Repair, Breakdown and 2
Commission Closed Flue Gas Fires
HTRLP 3 - Install, Exchange, Disconnect, Service, Repair, Breakdown and
Commission Caravan Space Heaters
REFLP 2 - Install, Exchange, Disconnect, Service, Repair, Breakdown and
Commission Caravan Gas Refrigerators
WATLP 2 - Install, Exchange, Disconnect, Service, Repair, Breakdown and
Commission Caravan Gas Water Heaters
WAHLP 1 - Install, Exchange, Disconnect, Service, Repair, Breakdown and
Commission Boat Warm Air Heaters
VESLP 1 - Gas Storage Vessel Connections, Controls and Safety Requirements.
Sizing External Above Ground and Unjointed Buried
Below Ground Pipework of up to 0.1 M3 in Volume for Single Gas Supply
VESLP 2 - Gas Storage Vessel Connections, Controls and Safety Requirements.
Sizing External Above Ground and Unjointed Buried
Below Ground Pipework of more than 0.1 M3 in Volume for Multiple Gas Supplies
EFJLP 1 - Polyethylene Electro Fusion Jointing for Single and Multiple
Liquefied Petroleum Gas Supply
COLPNG 1 - Changeover Core Domestic Gas Safety Assessment (Liquefied Petroleum
Gas to Natural Gas)
CONGLP 1 - Generic Fuel Changeover Core Domestic Gas Safety Assessment
(Natural Gas to Liquefied Petroleum Gas)

Any gas work is subject to complying to HSE requirements, and Gas Safe training and certification comes under that heading.

There are elements covering (LAV) - Leisure Accommodation Vehicles, which include caravans, park homes, mobile homes, motorcaravans, etc:

The vocabulary used to identify types of caravans has changed significantly with the introduction of new British & European Standards as follows:

BS 3632 Residential Park Homes
To be utilised for ventilation requirements from 1995

BS EN 721 Leisure Accommodation Vehicles
To be utilised for ventilation requirements from 1999

This standard breaks down LAV's into 3 categories by referring to the following normative documents:

EN 1645-1 Caravans
EN 1646-1 Motor Caravans
EN 1647-1 Caravan Holiday Homes

These standards will affect the types of appliances operatives will select in addition to the (LAV) core.

* Use appropriate manufacturer's instructions for flueing requirements (see below)

I. Residential Park Homes (RPH)
II. Leisure Accommodation Vehicles (LAV)
III. Boats (B)
IV. External Pipework (EP)
V. Mobile Cabinet Heaters (MC)

As stated previously, many times, use a certified, qualified, competent person to carry out gas work, be it natural gas OR LPG!

See less See more

paulmold

· #17 · May 19, 2009

DAFO1711 said:
Dear All,

Thanks for all your comments and indeed warnings - Having a few problems getting anyone to look at it - does the gas fitter / engineer need to be registered for motorhomes ??

Problem is we live in rural mid wales - great for the M/H but a bugger to get a tradesman !!! :lol:

I will be sure not to use it until its fixed ( if I can ever get anyone)

Dave

We had this with our last caravan, had it serviced, turned out to be a spiders web in the jet, apparently a common occurence.

AberdeenAngus

· #18 · May 19, 2009

Do the things you are competent to do.

Checking for spiders webs and chips.......Yes

Adjusting gas/air mixture.......No

Do the first. If it sorts the problem, fine, otherwise get it checked.

You say you "picked the motorhome up on Friday".
I am assuming this was a private sale otherwise throw it straight back at the dealer.
He has a resposibility to make sure its safe when he sells it.

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

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