Clearly it is not illegal Lucy. It is very much a case of caveat emptor however.

Manufacturers of vans are between a rock and a hard place. They are damned for using flimsy, light weight fittings and they are damned when, like many Continental converters, they use longer-lasting but heavier parts and furniture. There is also the retro-fittings you mention. MH erS are more and more wanting all the comforts of home and each one of them has to come out of the original weight allowance.

Basically it is up to buyers to check, forums to make people aware and all ofvus to boycott vans that start out too close to their limit.

G

 

I've been following (& replying to) your other posts on this. Looking at the dimensions of the tanks you've got, I reckon they hold approx 380 litres of water. If you add 40 Kg's for the tanks & hardware, another couple of hundred for the vans water & diesel. Then add some people 8O, I reckon the previous owner could have been close to a ton in excess of the maximum weight.

D.

 

User payload - one of the most important factors when buying a motorhome but one which people new to motorhoming are frequently unaware of and one that manufactures, and dealers, are somewhat backward in coming forward.

 

I think overweight is an offence rather than a crime, if it was criminalised then the manufacturers would in effect be aiding and abetting, which they would not want to be done for so would make lighter vans.

I'll be interested to see what mine weighs in at once it's finished

 

I think overweight is an offence rather than a crime, if it was criminalised then the manufacturers would in effect be aiding and abetting, which they would not want to be done for so would make lighter vans.

I'll be interested to see what mine weighs in at once it's finished

It would be interesting to see what would happen if an owner attempted to involve a converter after they had been refused insurance help following an accident in which being overweight played a part. I imagine any court could assess what constitutes a reasonable amount of stuff for a family to take on holiday and work out that in the case of many motorhomes, even stripped down to the basic van with few extras, it is not possible to pack this and still be legal.

G

 

Part of the problem is us owners and prospective owners
Over the years, we expect more and more fancy trimmings and mod cons, and all of this adds weight.
If a manufacturer fitted a van out as they used to be, years ago, they probably would not even sell one
It's all one up man ship, from manufacturers and customers alike
Then we have the 3500kg to contend with with more and more drivers falling into this category
Never buy any van without, first, checking the payload is suitable for your individual needs :!:

 

If a manufacturer fitted a van out as they used to be, years ago, they probably would not even sell one

How right you are ! Our first van had gas lighting - with mantles that broke every time the van moved- and a foot pump for water to the only sink. There was no fridge- bring your own cold box and get the blocks frozen by the campsite- and no loo- buy your own porta- pottie and carry a toilet tent. It was decked out with thin lino flooring, no blinds and orange and yellow curtains. Cooking was a 2 burner gas stove with a really effective grill. It had no heating but my OH fitted an underfloor heater with a vent in the floor. The dog used to lie on that until he started to singe. I can still smell him !

It was a lot better than a tent however and we loved it and could pack us and a family in it. We could even manage somewhere for the children to sleep inside if it was snowing or too stormy outside for their tents. The dog slept under our bed and used to lift us off the runners when he tried to turn round in the night.

G

 

hey G, you have just reminded me of a time when I lived in a 10 foot caravan on a boat yard, while I was waiting for a showroom to be built. I then upgraded for another year into an 11 foot 6 inch van
We did have mains electric, but I do remember the gas mantles in my Dads caravan .
We didn't expect as much in those days!

 

Been there done that. got soft now in my old age. :lol: :lol:
what we need is a sensible adjustment to the weight we can drive on our restricted licenses, change from the 3500 to 7500.max incl trailer.
it will need a new law passed through parliament to get it though.


cabby

 

Sale of Goods Act states that goods have to be fit for purpose.

 

Sale of Goods Act states that goods have to be fit for purpose.

It is fit for camping in, you just have to get a low loader taxi to the campsite.

 

There is only the two of us (usually) and our van has a 670kg payload
We use every kg of it :lol:

 

Been there done that. got soft now in my old age. :lol: :lol:
what we need is a sensible adjustment to the weight we can drive on our restricted licenses, change from the 3500 to 7500.max incl trailer.
it will need a new law passed through parliament to get it though.

cabby

I think they might not go for that, but a lot of these vans are the same size as the higher weight classification ones even up to 5.5t and it's just wheels, brake and suspension, also the final gearing, the rest is the same and it should be possible to word the licence to allow these to be driven, but don't hold your breath it takes all of DVLAs resources to get our tax disc here on time, why 5 weeks, do they sit on them or what.

I refer to the basic panel vans above, not MHs

 

Slighty OT. Grath & Grizz, you've reminded me of the "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch from the Monty Python crew

On a more serious note. Have a look at the payload on this Hymer tag axle 8O

D.

 

Regarding the above clip.
I did know a man who had no proper furniture, used a soap box for a table and drunk out of steel mugs and he was a proper millionaire in the days when a million was worth something. 50 years ago!
Oh and it was a two up and down!
Very few knew his financial position

 

If you don't use the toward take it off to get rid of the weight

 

We really looked into the payload issue before choosing our van. In every vehicle there is a compromise to be made, in our case it was a light weight chassis.
We have a 6 berth van, 6 seat belts and a few times during the year travel with grandchildren. have also travelled with 4 adults, the equipment/water we carry is dependent on plans. we take only a 5L bottle of water when going with the children, fill up on site saving 90K weight, we dont take the bikes, mine is electric so another 40K saving.
Usually just the 2 of us, so take awning, bikes more water (our first virgin trip in January was a bit hairy we only had 5L and most aires were turned off lol) tv satellite and clothing for all weathers.
We have never been overweight when weighed, just need to be realistic, majority of manufacturers expect, no matter how many berths/seatbelts that vehicles will be 2 up.
The weight information provided is at best misleading.
sue

 

we had a " A " Class French M/H 3500kgs. put it over 2 weighbridges ,took to the dealer he did not believe me when I said my wife would have to sit in the back to make the front axle weight legal !he did believe me after we went to a weigh bridge he selected !My advice is get a weigh bridge ticket preferably you being there when weighed , if they say no we not doing that walk away , as said above don't take to much notice of the brochure weights .

Tony A

 

Another way to save some weight is to use calor lite gas bottles. These save 20 KG each compared to standard 13kg bottles.

 

Another way to save some weight is to use calor lite gas bottles. These save 20 KG each compared to standard 13kg bottles.

 

As has been mentioned already I think it is up to the purchaser to familiarise himself / herself with what payload is needed and what the converter is offering. I suppose it is difficult for converters to anticipate everyone's requirements so inevitably pricing and marketing considerations will play a prominent part in what decisions are made concerning the levels of equipment provided and materials used in the van. However for a first time purchaser this makes it very difficult and I think that most dealers are pretty silent about this issue unless pressed. Also the failure of manufacturers to show the available payload by axle means a lot of people are misled. I have some 350kg "spare" on my front axle (as I did with my last motorhome) but have virtually zero chance of being able to load any more on to this axle.

In my van the published payload is flattered due to the non-inclusion of a spare wheel, the presumption that the fresh water tank is only half full and the inclusion of only one gas bottle. In common with all other motorhome suppliers, kerb weight includes the driver only and no passengers regardless of the number of passenger seats or beds.

So far as the op is concerned, one option you have is using a trailer. You have a towbar and over 1000kg available between your actual weight and gross train weight, so that would solve the problem for you, although obviously at some expense. You can also hire trailers if that is more appropriate.

 

Since we were overweight last year, we have shed a lot of excess weight, mainly stuff that we 'might' need, but in practice never used.

When we added more bits, we looked to take out the equivalent weight somewhere else.

We don't have water or waste tanks, and only a small Caravanstore Zip awning, but even a cupboard of tinned food or drinks soon add up.

We travel with no water in the system at all, but do carry 2 spare wheels.

We hope that after all the mods this year, we should be under the 3500kg weight that we are allowed for the trailer, but like in real life, putting weight ON is easy, taking it OFF is so difficult.

Bear in mind that ours is a trailer with 1.3 tonnes of engine in the back, but we are still subject to C&U reg's and weights, and potentially stand more of a risk of a weight check than most motorhomers.

Peter

 

When you visit a dealer to buy your first motorhome the salesperson should inform you of the payload issue. But if that end up costing the salesperson on his/hers paycheck from lack of bonuses it's not a stretch to imagine it's not discussed to much.

On a more serious note. Have a look at the payload on this Hymer tag axle 8O

I have seen a 7.5t Concorde with a similar payload. Mindboggeling until you ask and the salesperson who tell you that it really is a 10t van and the previous owner had it downrated so that he could drive it.

 

Hi
A big problem is people want bigger and better motorhomes and the converters continue to use the same base vehicles Ducato/Sprinter etc which are already getting on for their max weight and as we add more and more the only thing that happens is the available weight is reduced.
They could move on to the next size of base vehicle capable of much more weight but the cost would go through the roof and this would also limit the prospective buyers able to drive them.
So the only way forward is to reduce the weight of fixtures and fittings which if possible costs more or just turn a blind eye.
James

 

Thanks everyone. Had a few giggles reading some of those posts too :lol:

I actually think it is pointless knowing the payload of a vehicle in practice. The only way to know for sure how much weight you're carrying is to go to the weighbridge fully laden (and unladen if you wish to know the real payload) and see how much crap you need to get rid of

Say the payload on ours was 700kgs as it states on the net, (but I am still certain that somewhere in our paperwork it states 1250kgs as I remember being very impressed), you then have to remember that it has had a spare wheel, full air con, camos dome, tow bar, solar panel, TV and satellite equipment and a 4 bike rack added which all needs to come off that payload before you even included your passengers and all the gear that comes with them. The bike rack is useless to us now with our latest discovery that we are only just under the max weight on each axle, we couldn't possibly put bikes on it. We can't use the underfloor storage other than for a few essentials such as table and chairs for the 6 of us because we would again overload the axle. We have removed 40kgs of unrequired and pointless extra water tanks today which would have held around 400l of water adding an extra 400kgs to the weight (jeez!) and still we don't have enough payload to get the 6 of us in with our now, greatly minimized 'stuff' :evil: