This is a can of worms. Some say an external filler is required, which I also believe, and some say they aren't.

If you want certainty go for an external filler, no-one says that's against the rues, Alan.

 

This is the basis for the can of worms that Alan means:
3. (1) Every connection for filling a fixed gas container shall be on the outside of the vehicle.

(2) There shall be fitted to every fixed gas container either—

(a)a manually operated shut-off valve and an excess flow valve, or
(b)a manually operated shut-off valve and a single check valve, or
(c)a double-check valve.
and all parts of these valves in contact with gas shall be made entirely of suitable metal except that they may contain non-metal washers and seals provided that such washers and seals are supported and constrained by metal components.

(3) In every case where a pipe is attached to a gas container for the purpose of filling the gas container there shall be fitted to the end of the pipe furthest from the gas container a check valve or a double-check valve.

(4) There shall be fitted over every gas filling point on a vehicle a cap which shall—

(a)prevent any leakage of gas from the gas filling point,
(b)be secured to the vehicle by a chain or some other suitable means,
(c)be made of suitable material, and
(d)be fastened to the gas filling point by either a screw thread or other suitable means.

It's the relevant section of the Construction and Use regs.

He and I kicked this one around a few months ago on here as to whether the remote filler can be fixed just inside the locker or has to be out in the day-light as it were.

Also the industry code of practice does say that to be considered safe by pump attendants the fill should not be directly onto the bottle. Gaslow do a leaflet that outlines this.

Those are just some of the worms.

 

I thought italian legislation was one of the most convoluted in the world but probably it is not....

I am asking because in Italy filling a mobile gas bottle at the gas station is not allowed whatsoever.
So some install an external plug to fake that they have an under floor permanently fixed gas plant.....and then connect it to the gas bottle.

Unfortunately, it appears that at the gas station you can refill only gas used for motion engines, not for motorhome appliances regardless of the kind of plant/installation you have (but this point is quite controversial).

I also know that in the majority of european countries refilling gas bottle directly on them is allowed.....so, maybe, I could decide to buy one with the external plug and this should save me in the majority of european countries..... maybe.

I just wonder what is EU for if any country has its own rules anyway......

 

I am aware of that Cronkle and have posted it in the past.

It doesn't prevent those who are determined from fitting filler direct to bottles or in the gas locker from doing just that and maintaining that what they are doing/have done is within the rules.

This is usually justified by saying that suppliers wouldn't sell the parts to do this if it wasn't within the rules and occasionally by saying that it's simply an engineering impossibility to fit an external filler to their vans. This last always strikes me as most peculiar, after all men went to the moon. That really was rocket science. Despite having tried quite hard I really can't imagine any insurmountable challenge in fitting an external filler. Except, of course, persuading someone who is determined not to do it to change their mind, Alan.

 

I do not understand all of these regulations. I filled my Gaslow bottles yesterday at a Shell station and was even given assistance from the Shell employee on the forecourt. My systems filler is in the locker and he did not bat an eyelid. Moreover, my local gas retailer has not problem with me filling up there either and they know it is for heating and cooking.

Dave

 

I refilled ours today, or I should say, topped up.
For our last 10 nights away, which started with full gas in the south of France, deteriorating September weather, and finished at home a few days into cold October.
We only used 12 litres for the 10 nights, for cooking every meal, boiler heating for showers etc, and a little heating. Can't be bad!

 

I think one of the issues with filling direct to a bottle is that the fittings are not exactly robust, and most if not all are brass.

We've got three external filler points as we cannot always get the trailer onto a pump to fill conveniently, so now we fill the trailer tank at the same time as we fill the Discovery.

As far as using Autogas for domestic purposes, I can't see the point of making that an issue, we pay tax and duty on it as a fuel, it is not incorrect use of the fuel and our appliances are designed to use it.

I have seen this mentioned before that some places in Italy forbid filling of domestic tanks, but cannot find any legislation that tells us why.

I'd fit an external point if I had a motorhome, we have a drawing for the stiffener plate if anyone needs it, we could probably get more plates made if there was a demand for them.

Peter

 

Mine has to be in the locker l wanted it outside there wasnt anywhere to do this though
Mine wasnt so much from rules as much as easier *Sighs*

 

gas bottles

I haven't seen anything that says a remote filler point is needed. In fact there are many companies - Safefill etc that sell refillable bottles that don't have any type of remote fittings and they pass the relevant British & European standards.

I think that a lot is to do with the individual filling stations.

 

It is Shell who ban filling bottles unless there is an external filling point. Next time you use a Shell garage check out the signs telling you that you cannot fill anything that is bottle shaped. They might even stop you using an external filling point if they knew a bottle was at the other end of it. It would depend how much of a jobsworth was in charge at that garage. 8O I have been refused at my local Shell garage. They get no other business from me now. :evil:

There are written regulations to this effect, I am sure somebody will post them but I am off out with the dogs now and don't have time to look for them.

 

I have seen this mentioned before that some places in Italy forbid filling of domestic tanks, but cannot find any legislation that tells us why.

Peter

I am not an expert of these kind of matters but, as far as I understood, in Italy at the gas stations you can refill only permanently fixed gas plants and only for vehicles combustion engines. These plants have to be certified by the relative installer and mobile refillable gas bottle cannot have this certification, in Italy, so you could theoretically only refill them at authorized gas bottles refilling points.

BUT, even if you have such a plant and use it for domestic appliances inside your motorhome, is still forbidden since domestic LPG and engine LPG have different taxation. Which is funny since actually the latest is higher, so by filling our domestic appliances LPG bottle at the gas station is actually giving to the state more money than required. But is still forbidden.

Sorry for not being more specific, but this is the best of my knowledge about that.

 

This is the basis for the can of worms that Alan means:
3. (1) Every connection for filling a fixed gas container shall be on the outside of the vehicle.
.....................................

Those are just some of the worms.

Maybe this will help Ubuntu. It's from the information Cronkle posted.

Perhaps you missed his post, Alan.

 

I'd forgotten about this one. It's a freedom of information request made by a member to the Health and Safety Executive:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/filling_lpg_gas_bottles_on_forec

The bit about the remote filler is towards the end:

'LPG containers that are securely attached to a vehicle (e.g. camper van)
for heating or cooking purposes may be filled from the autogas dispenser
on the proviso that they: - remain in-situ for re-filling;
- are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling
beyond 80% of the full capacity; and
- are a fixed filling connector which is not part of the vessel.'

 

Morning folks,

My guess is that the rules are to stop people starting a secondary market. IE. refilling old bottles and then selling on at lower prices also this might mean some bottles become unsafe, dodgy threads etc.


norm

 

It is probably more to do with the people who have been buying from Ebay, the refill kits for ordinary non refillable Calor bottles.
Spoiling it for those of us who are trying to do it properly!

 

On my previous van I had the filler point in the gas locker. And one time when filling up at a Shell (in norway) the pump handle got stuck so I had to get help from someone with a stronger grip. The guy who helped me did not care about my filler point beeing internal. So I belive it's down to the people running the place and not any particular chain of garages.

 

On my previous van I had the filler point in the gas locker. And one time when filling up at a Shell (in norway) the pump handle got stuck so I had to get help from someone with a stronger grip. The guy who helped me did not care about my filler point beeing internal. So I belive it's down to the people running the place and not any particular chain of garages.

I would agree - exactly my experience. On our previous van we had the filler in the locker and had help on more than one occasion, in different countries too. The only time we had an issue was in fact in Italy, where the guy at the garage clearly did not want us to fill our Gaslow, so we moved on and filled somewhere else. We have never had a problem at our local Shell garage, so I reckon it is mostly down to the individual

 

What the people operating the pump think doesn't change the regulations, it just means that they may be unaware of them. They are not charged with inspecting and approving your equipment before allowing you to fill, Alan.

 

http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php?_a=product&product_id=102

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/

I believe the situation is that Gaslow have spoken to a number of independent operators and they have agreed to allow direct fill bottles to be filled at their stations, the url above has a map which shows their location.