hi, can any member tell me about KVH TRACVISION R4 sat/dome looking to buy one ,where is the best buy? spoke to a dealer/fitter about camos and he said he wont be using them anymore as he has had problems with over 20 units, thanks
panda54
Leisurepower used to be the cheapest:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-240625.html#240625
I suspect it was a bit of a loss-leader to compete with Camos, given how their price has now rocketed:
http://www.leisurepower.co.uk/acatalog/kvhr4.html
Dave
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-240625.html#240625
I suspect it was a bit of a loss-leader to compete with Camos, given how their price has now rocketed:
http://www.leisurepower.co.uk/acatalog/kvhr4.html
Dave
Which dealer? Was it that they sell a different one? were out of stock of Camos, or perhaps they hadn't/couldn't pay their account with RoadPro so couldn't get any.
We have fitted as many as any dealer I would guess, and we distribute Camos to our own fitting agents and local dealers. We have had no major problems with Camos, neither has any other dealer that I am aware of.
Tracvision is a different beast. It only looks at Astra 2B unlike the six satellites that Camos can use. So it is not cheaper as you cannot make a direct comparison in my opinion.
Why not speak to Andy Harris at Roadpro, he is the MD and personally tests all of the systems he sells. Discuss your fears with him and get the information from the horses mouth
Cheers
Eddie
We have fitted as many as any dealer I would guess, and we distribute Camos to our own fitting agents and local dealers. We have had no major problems with Camos, neither has any other dealer that I am aware of.
Tracvision is a different beast. It only looks at Astra 2B unlike the six satellites that Camos can use. So it is not cheaper as you cannot make a direct comparison in my opinion.
Why not speak to Andy Harris at Roadpro, he is the MD and personally tests all of the systems he sells. Discuss your fears with him and get the information from the horses mouth
Cheers
Eddie
Andy is back from his sojourn of comparison testing a number of different satellite setups on the edge of Astra footprints and is now writing it up.
I spoke with the Roadpro team last weekend, clearly as an existing customer, not a prospective one, and they proferred that not much has gone wrong with Camos since some early microswitch failures, the component for which has long since been replaced.
Many customers apparently attribute problems to Camos where switching their satellite receiver to the southern beam is beyond them. But that's as they would with any satellite system, so shouldn't be a discrimninator, unless those types of people are attracted by the Camos user-friendliness, simplicity yet flexibility in the first place.
Dave
I spoke with the Roadpro team last weekend, clearly as an existing customer, not a prospective one, and they proferred that not much has gone wrong with Camos since some early microswitch failures, the component for which has long since been replaced.
Many customers apparently attribute problems to Camos where switching their satellite receiver to the southern beam is beyond them. But that's as they would with any satellite system, so shouldn't be a discrimninator, unless those types of people are attracted by the Camos user-friendliness, simplicity yet flexibility in the first place.
Dave
Thank you Eddie. I love Internet forums: you learn so much that you didn't know before such as the fact that one of your customers has had over 20 sat-dome failures and won't be fitting them any more.
I wonder who this can be and I wonder why a) the dealer in question hasn't mentioned this to us at RoadPro and b) why neither Mark - our technical manager - nor I - the managing director - have any knowledge of 20 faulty sat-domes being returned to us.
Panda54 - please let me know the name of this dealer so that I can contact him and sort things out. I'm serious! If you've spoken to him, please let me know who it is. I think that's fair, don't you?
This "fact" doesn't really tie in with some other facts. For example:
1) A very large chain of motorhome dealers has told us recently that they will only be recommending Camos sat-domes from now on as they are so reliable.
2) A well-known installation company - who promote and sell KVH domes - have recently bought several Camos sat-domes from us.
3) A chap who works for another supplier of KVH systems phoned me personally recently to ask if we could use him to install Camos units. I had a chat with and he told me that he has so much trouble with KVH systems that he's getting a bit bored.
4) One of the country's leading suppliers of luxury coaches to football teams only uses Camos sat-domes as they are more reliable and more efficient than others they has tried. Ask Aston Villa, Manchester City, Fulham, Reading, etc, what they think.
5) Transleisure have bought Camos sat-domes from us and don't seem to have had any problems.
6) Van Bitz have installed dozens and dozens of sat-domes. I'm sure Eddie will give anyone who's interested an honest appraisal.
7) London Ambulance looked at sat-domes and bought a Camos unit for one of their special incident vehicles.
We have sold hundreds and hundreds of domes and have hundreds and hundreds of satisfied customers.
We have several customers I know by name who take their domes with them when they change vehicles. They don't want any other system.
We've been selling domes for 3 years now and I don't know of any of those early units that are not still going strong. The one on our Laika was until last month when I installed a brand new one for my trip to Norway - of which more later!
We have had problems with the sat-domes, I won't and don't want to conceal the fact. These are highly complex pieces of equipment and there have been software problems and also some hardware problems. We go to great lengths to make sure our customers are satisfied and I believe that virtually all the problems we've been faced with have been resolved to our customers' satisfaction.
The latest versions are very reliable and incredibly efficient - finding a satellite in around 20 seconds on average for example.
I challenge anyone to compare a Camos sat-dome to any other similar unit. I believe that the Camos unit will beat the others in every single respect (except perhaps price where other manufacturers are heavily subsidising their products).
We give a two year warranty on Camos sat-domes and are appy to continue doing so.
As for performance, I'm currently working on a series of maps which will show the true footprints of all the satellite systems we sell. Some people will be amazed!
Having tested the north, I'm heading south after the York show. I'll go to Gibraltar and round Portugal and I'll be back in time for the NEC show in October. Anyone who wants to find out how well sat-domes, Alden dishes, the Kathrein CAP 900 and Multimos work down south is welcome to come and talk to me (5 minutes per person!).
As I travel south, I shall be using the new Alden Netmaster 90 to keep in touch. This is a 90cm dish which not only receives TV but will also give 2-way Internet access ANYWHERE IN EUROPE (almost). I'll send messages to the forums or something but if anyone has any questions about performance of this or any other unit, please let me know. Maybe meet up on the way and give me a hand: it's hard work!!!
That's it, I can't wait for Panda54 to give me the name of this dealer.
RoadProAndy
I wonder who this can be and I wonder why a) the dealer in question hasn't mentioned this to us at RoadPro and b) why neither Mark - our technical manager - nor I - the managing director - have any knowledge of 20 faulty sat-domes being returned to us.
Panda54 - please let me know the name of this dealer so that I can contact him and sort things out. I'm serious! If you've spoken to him, please let me know who it is. I think that's fair, don't you?
This "fact" doesn't really tie in with some other facts. For example:
1) A very large chain of motorhome dealers has told us recently that they will only be recommending Camos sat-domes from now on as they are so reliable.
2) A well-known installation company - who promote and sell KVH domes - have recently bought several Camos sat-domes from us.
3) A chap who works for another supplier of KVH systems phoned me personally recently to ask if we could use him to install Camos units. I had a chat with and he told me that he has so much trouble with KVH systems that he's getting a bit bored.
4) One of the country's leading suppliers of luxury coaches to football teams only uses Camos sat-domes as they are more reliable and more efficient than others they has tried. Ask Aston Villa, Manchester City, Fulham, Reading, etc, what they think.
5) Transleisure have bought Camos sat-domes from us and don't seem to have had any problems.
6) Van Bitz have installed dozens and dozens of sat-domes. I'm sure Eddie will give anyone who's interested an honest appraisal.
7) London Ambulance looked at sat-domes and bought a Camos unit for one of their special incident vehicles.
We have sold hundreds and hundreds of domes and have hundreds and hundreds of satisfied customers.
We have several customers I know by name who take their domes with them when they change vehicles. They don't want any other system.
We've been selling domes for 3 years now and I don't know of any of those early units that are not still going strong. The one on our Laika was until last month when I installed a brand new one for my trip to Norway - of which more later!
We have had problems with the sat-domes, I won't and don't want to conceal the fact. These are highly complex pieces of equipment and there have been software problems and also some hardware problems. We go to great lengths to make sure our customers are satisfied and I believe that virtually all the problems we've been faced with have been resolved to our customers' satisfaction.
The latest versions are very reliable and incredibly efficient - finding a satellite in around 20 seconds on average for example.
I challenge anyone to compare a Camos sat-dome to any other similar unit. I believe that the Camos unit will beat the others in every single respect (except perhaps price where other manufacturers are heavily subsidising their products).
We give a two year warranty on Camos sat-domes and are appy to continue doing so.
As for performance, I'm currently working on a series of maps which will show the true footprints of all the satellite systems we sell. Some people will be amazed!
Having tested the north, I'm heading south after the York show. I'll go to Gibraltar and round Portugal and I'll be back in time for the NEC show in October. Anyone who wants to find out how well sat-domes, Alden dishes, the Kathrein CAP 900 and Multimos work down south is welcome to come and talk to me (5 minutes per person!).
As I travel south, I shall be using the new Alden Netmaster 90 to keep in touch. This is a 90cm dish which not only receives TV but will also give 2-way Internet access ANYWHERE IN EUROPE (almost). I'll send messages to the forums or something but if anyone has any questions about performance of this or any other unit, please let me know. Maybe meet up on the way and give me a hand: it's hard work!!!
That's it, I can't wait for Panda54 to give me the name of this dealer.
RoadProAndy
And more!!!
Thank you David for your point about the southern beam. You are SO right. This happened to us only yesterday. The customer phoned up from Portugal to complain and we asked him if he'd changed his SKY Box to the south beam settings. He didn't know what we were talking about (we hadn't sold the dome to him). We gave him the instructions and have heard nothing since.
Last month - this is true - a customer (we hadn't sold the dome to him either) phoned up from Germany and complained that, for 3 weeks, he hadn't been able to get his dome to work. We asked the usual questions and came to the conclusion that he hadn't actually switched the controller on. We were right, he hadn't. When he did, the dome worked perfectly: well, it would, wouldn't it?
Yesterday I received this e-mail (names removed to protect the guilty):
I have just had fitted by ******** a Camos mobile dome. I am unable to lock on to any signal regardless of which satelite I use. I accept that my location may be the problem in getting reception, however there is nothing in the instructions to tell me what to expect if reception is not possible. The dish continues to search forever, is this normal? I intend to try different locations but have a nasty feeling that this dish is faulty.
Today, I received this e-mail from the same person:
I sent you an email just a couple of hours ago asking for help with a Camos mobile dish. I changed locations and suddenly I have sky, instantly as advertised. I now feel a fool, sorry for bothering you.
It's easy to make a mistake with this strange new technology but, when in doubt, don't just assume that the equipment is at fault. It may be and, if it is and if RoadPro supplied it, we'll fix it. If it isn't, we'll help you learn how to use it.
That is all.
RoadProAndy
Thank you David for your point about the southern beam. You are SO right. This happened to us only yesterday. The customer phoned up from Portugal to complain and we asked him if he'd changed his SKY Box to the south beam settings. He didn't know what we were talking about (we hadn't sold the dome to him). We gave him the instructions and have heard nothing since.
Last month - this is true - a customer (we hadn't sold the dome to him either) phoned up from Germany and complained that, for 3 weeks, he hadn't been able to get his dome to work. We asked the usual questions and came to the conclusion that he hadn't actually switched the controller on. We were right, he hadn't. When he did, the dome worked perfectly: well, it would, wouldn't it?
Yesterday I received this e-mail (names removed to protect the guilty):
I have just had fitted by ******** a Camos mobile dome. I am unable to lock on to any signal regardless of which satelite I use. I accept that my location may be the problem in getting reception, however there is nothing in the instructions to tell me what to expect if reception is not possible. The dish continues to search forever, is this normal? I intend to try different locations but have a nasty feeling that this dish is faulty.
Today, I received this e-mail from the same person:
I sent you an email just a couple of hours ago asking for help with a Camos mobile dish. I changed locations and suddenly I have sky, instantly as advertised. I now feel a fool, sorry for bothering you.
It's easy to make a mistake with this strange new technology but, when in doubt, don't just assume that the equipment is at fault. It may be and, if it is and if RoadPro supplied it, we'll fix it. If it isn't, we'll help you learn how to use it.
That is all.
RoadProAndy
Using at this very moment our 40cm. in motion camos dome in Sant Goar and we have had no problem with any reception in europe except in deepest spain and once in norway were it never worked at all, due too a software problem which was fixed without quibble by roadpro as soon as we returned to the uk.
Great piece of equipment, fantastic aftersales from RoadPro and i am looking forward to Andy's writeup on his trails.
Bob
Great piece of equipment, fantastic aftersales from RoadPro and i am looking forward to Andy's writeup on his trails.
Bob
andy, first of all i have nothing against camos i asked for info on a kvh ,i also mentioned the info i got from a dealer/fitter ,today i rang this same fitter and he stands by what he told me ,and said " CAMOS HAVE IMPROVED THEIR SAT DOMES TO OVERCOME THE PROBLEM THEY WERE HAVING " on his site it says " we run roadpro on the basis that we only sell stuff we know that works if we are not happy with something we tell people about the problem ,try to fix them, or stop selling the stuff, "
LETS HOPE THAT THE ROADPRO MD IS TRUE TO HIS WORD,[ his words ]
all the above is on this dealers site , he also would not fit another camos unless it was the improved sat dome, i thought a forum was for disscusing thinks right or wrong about motorhomes
LETS HOPE THAT THE ROADPRO MD IS TRUE TO HIS WORD,[ his words ]
all the above is on this dealers site , he also would not fit another camos unless it was the improved sat dome, i thought a forum was for disscusing thinks right or wrong about motorhomes
Nick Stevens, Adventure Motorhomes
http://www.adventuremotorhomehire.co.uk/page27.html
His problems have been with the original Camos dome (as is mine, btw).
Dave
http://www.adventuremotorhomehire.co.uk/page27.html
His problems have been with the original Camos dome (as is mine, btw).
Dave
Absolutely right Panda54, a forum is for discussing things. My point is that, in order to have a sensible, constructive discussion, it's necessary to have all the facts available, not just an anonymous person's comments which, I'm pretty certain, are simply not correct.
You haven't yet told me who this dealer is. Please let me know so that I can help sort out the problems that he's had with our products and of which I'm completely unaware.
I don't want to come across as an arrogant, irritable so and so. I think (hope) that most people who know me would tell you that I'm anything but. However, as I'm sure you can understand, I'm in a difficult position when, on a forum such as this, people pass on statements that, as I say, I believe to be simply not correct and without even checking them with me or anyone else.
I look forward to finding out who this dealer / fitter is.
With all best wishes
RoadProAndy
You haven't yet told me who this dealer is. Please let me know so that I can help sort out the problems that he's had with our products and of which I'm completely unaware.
I don't want to come across as an arrogant, irritable so and so. I think (hope) that most people who know me would tell you that I'm anything but. However, as I'm sure you can understand, I'm in a difficult position when, on a forum such as this, people pass on statements that, as I say, I believe to be simply not correct and without even checking them with me or anyone else.
I look forward to finding out who this dealer / fitter is.
With all best wishes
RoadProAndy
panda54 - No problems yet anyway beyond my MHF review of it (other than the one where Astra-North button ceased to work when satellite channels changed; fortunately Astra-South button works just the same). I simply meant mine was the original type with which Adventure Motorhomes obviously had difficulty.
Andy - "arrogant, irritable so and so. I think (hope) that most people who know me would tell you that I'm anything but."
Ummm. I do wonder whether I can have some of what you're on when I see you at shows. I couldn't do your job; don't have your patience.
Eddie - it's a Caktanks CSB2 or BCM12.
Dave
Andy - "arrogant, irritable so and so. I think (hope) that most people who know me would tell you that I'm anything but."
Ummm. I do wonder whether I can have some of what you're on when I see you at shows. I couldn't do your job; don't have your patience.
Eddie - it's a Caktanks CSB2 or BCM12.
Dave
Panda 54
You point out in capital letters (which is the internet equivalent to shouting) that your original post was about the Tracvision. You went on to say that a "dealer" had said that he had 20 failiures with the Camos dome.
You can hardly be surprised if the importer (RoadPro) and a major installer/supplier (Van Bitz) of the dome defends the product. Equally it must be no surprise that we want to know the name of the dealer. To claim to a member of the public that he had had to return 20 units, when no one else in the trade knows anything about, you can understand our concern.
I am privy to the numbers of returns of all the Camos units that are fitted in the South West and there is no dealer that had anything like the number of returns suggested. Consequenly I can only assume that the dealer is telling you lies.
In answer to the first part of the question, I replied this morning. The Tracvision is not as flexible as the Camos dome, as it will only look at a single satellite, where as, with the Camos you can choose any one of six. Link this to a free to air receiver and you have a pan European system. So other than their shape, the systems are not comparable.
I hope that this helps. I would suggest that you get advice from another dealer (who ever the original one may be!)
Eddie
You point out in capital letters (which is the internet equivalent to shouting) that your original post was about the Tracvision. You went on to say that a "dealer" had said that he had 20 failiures with the Camos dome.
You can hardly be surprised if the importer (RoadPro) and a major installer/supplier (Van Bitz) of the dome defends the product. Equally it must be no surprise that we want to know the name of the dealer. To claim to a member of the public that he had had to return 20 units, when no one else in the trade knows anything about, you can understand our concern.
I am privy to the numbers of returns of all the Camos units that are fitted in the South West and there is no dealer that had anything like the number of returns suggested. Consequenly I can only assume that the dealer is telling you lies.
In answer to the first part of the question, I replied this morning. The Tracvision is not as flexible as the Camos dome, as it will only look at a single satellite, where as, with the Camos you can choose any one of six. Link this to a free to air receiver and you have a pan European system. So other than their shape, the systems are not comparable.
I hope that this helps. I would suggest that you get advice from another dealer (who ever the original one may be!)
Eddie
Panda54, this is a good illustration of the problem I mentioned earlier isn't it. You quote a dealer / installer as saying that he has had problems with over 20 Camos sat-domes. Lots of people see this and think "Oh, those Camos sat-domes must be terrible, I certainly won't even consider buying one of those." This jeopardises my the success of my business which I have spent 26 years building up and which, so I'm told, has a very good reputation.
I know that what the dealer told you was incorrect or possibly you misunderstood what he said. Either way, I want to defend myself and my business. You then decline to say who this dealer is. Why? Who are you protecting? Your comment about certain rules for certain people is illogical. I didn't give the company's name because it is entirely irrelevant to the matter in hand. If you really want to know, e-mail me at ah@roadpro.co.uk and I'll tell you.
You on the other hand, by declining to name the person who has made inaccurate comments about my company's products, prevent me from defending myself. Is that fair?
Anyway, we now know who it was - no thanks to Panda54, thanks to Dave - and I can confirm that the statement passed on by Panda54 is, as I suspected, nonsense to put it politely. It's true that he has had some problems with sat-domes but 20 faulty units? I don't think so. I'll have a word with Nick next week but I'm pleased to see that he still wants to sell Camos sat-domes as you can see on his website:
http://www.adventuremotorhomehire.co.uk/page27.html
Panda54, you could always check with Nick again and confirm exactly what he said. I'm always happy to hear facts on a forum rather than tittle-tattle.
All the best to everyone
RoadProAndy
I know that what the dealer told you was incorrect or possibly you misunderstood what he said. Either way, I want to defend myself and my business. You then decline to say who this dealer is. Why? Who are you protecting? Your comment about certain rules for certain people is illogical. I didn't give the company's name because it is entirely irrelevant to the matter in hand. If you really want to know, e-mail me at ah@roadpro.co.uk and I'll tell you.
You on the other hand, by declining to name the person who has made inaccurate comments about my company's products, prevent me from defending myself. Is that fair?
Anyway, we now know who it was - no thanks to Panda54, thanks to Dave - and I can confirm that the statement passed on by Panda54 is, as I suspected, nonsense to put it politely. It's true that he has had some problems with sat-domes but 20 faulty units? I don't think so. I'll have a word with Nick next week but I'm pleased to see that he still wants to sell Camos sat-domes as you can see on his website:
http://www.adventuremotorhomehire.co.uk/page27.html
Panda54, you could always check with Nick again and confirm exactly what he said. I'm always happy to hear facts on a forum rather than tittle-tattle.
All the best to everyone
RoadProAndy
I just can't stop can I?
I've noticed this comment on Nick's Adventure Motorhomes site:
"Just to clear up a small matter of confusion, a larger satellite dish will outperform the camos sat dome in weak signal area’s, this
means that the larger dish will recieve BBC and ITV stations further away from the signal than the camos"
It is simply not correct to say that a larger dish will always out-perform a larger one, as anyone who knows anything about satellite TV transmission and reception will tell you - and as I will clearly demonstrate to anyone who's interested during my trip to the Iberian peninsular. (I'm getting all excited!!)
I've stopped.
Andy
I've noticed this comment on Nick's Adventure Motorhomes site:
"Just to clear up a small matter of confusion, a larger satellite dish will outperform the camos sat dome in weak signal area’s, this
means that the larger dish will recieve BBC and ITV stations further away from the signal than the camos"
It is simply not correct to say that a larger dish will always out-perform a larger one, as anyone who knows anything about satellite TV transmission and reception will tell you - and as I will clearly demonstrate to anyone who's interested during my trip to the Iberian peninsular. (I'm getting all excited!!)
I've stopped.
Andy
I spotted the same quote (or should it be a quip)
The trouble with sweeping statements is that they bite you on the arse! "
"a larger satellite dish will outperform the Camos sat dome in weak signal area"
Was this test carried out in high wind? which we are getting more an dmore of given the climate changes we are experiencing or perhaps in a typical Mediterranean thunder storm, when of course, nearly a metre of steel dish on the roof is exactly what you want, with forked lightening spearing its way to the ground!
Nope, sorry, I still think that the Camos system is a great system, I am happy to install it. Whilst it is not right for everyone in every situation let no one be put of it because of lies and untruths.
The trouble with sweeping statements is that they bite you on the arse! "
"a larger satellite dish will outperform the Camos sat dome in weak signal area"
Was this test carried out in high wind? which we are getting more an dmore of given the climate changes we are experiencing or perhaps in a typical Mediterranean thunder storm, when of course, nearly a metre of steel dish on the roof is exactly what you want, with forked lightening spearing its way to the ground!
Nope, sorry, I still think that the Camos system is a great system, I am happy to install it. Whilst it is not right for everyone in every situation let no one be put of it because of lies and untruths.
With apologies to Panda54, as this issue isn't a discriminator between KVH and Camos, Andy and Eddie clearly disagree with Nick's:
"Just to clear up a small matter of confusion, a larger satellite dish will outperform the Camos sat dome in weak signal area's, this
means that the larger dish will receive BBC and ITV stations further away from the signal than the Camos"
Now I reckon everyone is right; it's the difference between theory and practice
I am conscious my own MHF Camos review says:
" ...... I'd prefer an Oyster if I envisaged significant operation at the edges of the satellite/transponder footprint, where an 85cm dish would outperform a high precision CAMOS. The simple physical geometry of capture area counts here. I haven't yet had the CAMOS down to SW France to judge Astra 2D reception, or below Barcelona for Astra 2A/2B, but it has worked fine on all channels in rain (there was no choice….) half-way up Scotland's Western Highlands."
I am also conscious of Andy's satellite reception comparisons about to hit the streets. One can theorise all one likes, but the proof of the pudding, as they say ....
So, in an attempt to square this circle, both Nick and I are correct, because imagining a Camos moving outwards towards the edge of a transponder footprint, the picture and sound from the decoded digital signal will start to break up (visually blocky, sound distortion or silence), at which point a larger equivalent dish would be capturing more signal, and so its picture/sound would still be as it was at the centre of the footprint.
Andy is also correct, because the point he will no doubt make in his despatches from the front line, is that a satellite transponder beam is quite different from terrestrial broadcast signals that gradually tail off as you get further away from the transmitter. Rather they are like a torch beam from space with a very sharp cut-off at the edge (I've got a modern LED torch like this and it's a right pain; give me a powerful light that gradually tails off radially anytime). This radial sharp cut-off means that, as one moves, mile by mile, further out from the point at which the Camos lost the signal, the dish size you require to maintain a good signal balloons like crazy to impractical dimensions. Conversely, over virtually the whole area illuminated by this torch beam, all you need is a dish that is big enough; getting a bigger dish will not improve the picture/sound quality.
So, overall, if you are operating "AT the edge of the footprint", as I say in my review, a larger dish could well make more sense. If, however, you are merely touring in your motorhome and moving around, frankly a larger dish is overkill.
Eddie's point about wind I cover in the MHF review, which for completeness is here:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Product_Reviews&op=show&rid=67
though it's getting a bit long in the tooth now, 18 months old and based on operation in the year preceding that.
Dave
"Just to clear up a small matter of confusion, a larger satellite dish will outperform the Camos sat dome in weak signal area's, this
means that the larger dish will receive BBC and ITV stations further away from the signal than the Camos"
Now I reckon everyone is right; it's the difference between theory and practice
I am conscious my own MHF Camos review says:
" ...... I'd prefer an Oyster if I envisaged significant operation at the edges of the satellite/transponder footprint, where an 85cm dish would outperform a high precision CAMOS. The simple physical geometry of capture area counts here. I haven't yet had the CAMOS down to SW France to judge Astra 2D reception, or below Barcelona for Astra 2A/2B, but it has worked fine on all channels in rain (there was no choice….) half-way up Scotland's Western Highlands."
I am also conscious of Andy's satellite reception comparisons about to hit the streets. One can theorise all one likes, but the proof of the pudding, as they say ....
So, in an attempt to square this circle, both Nick and I are correct, because imagining a Camos moving outwards towards the edge of a transponder footprint, the picture and sound from the decoded digital signal will start to break up (visually blocky, sound distortion or silence), at which point a larger equivalent dish would be capturing more signal, and so its picture/sound would still be as it was at the centre of the footprint.
Andy is also correct, because the point he will no doubt make in his despatches from the front line, is that a satellite transponder beam is quite different from terrestrial broadcast signals that gradually tail off as you get further away from the transmitter. Rather they are like a torch beam from space with a very sharp cut-off at the edge (I've got a modern LED torch like this and it's a right pain; give me a powerful light that gradually tails off radially anytime). This radial sharp cut-off means that, as one moves, mile by mile, further out from the point at which the Camos lost the signal, the dish size you require to maintain a good signal balloons like crazy to impractical dimensions. Conversely, over virtually the whole area illuminated by this torch beam, all you need is a dish that is big enough; getting a bigger dish will not improve the picture/sound quality.
So, overall, if you are operating "AT the edge of the footprint", as I say in my review, a larger dish could well make more sense. If, however, you are merely touring in your motorhome and moving around, frankly a larger dish is overkill.
Eddie's point about wind I cover in the MHF review, which for completeness is here:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Product_Reviews&op=show&rid=67
though it's getting a bit long in the tooth now, 18 months old and based on operation in the year preceding that.
Dave
Very, very briefly - because my dinner's ready - the reason I said what I said about dish size and performance is that the LNB, the electronics, the dish itself and the compatibility of all the different components all have a vital role to play in how a satellite system performs. I wasn't referring to the sat-dome in particular.
Most portable satellite systems use off the shelf components: dish, LNB, cable and electronic bits. The new Kathrein CAP 900 was designed from scratch by Kathrein and they say that, because of this, it should have better performance characteristics than a normal dish system of up to 1M. My initial results from testing in Scandinavia suggest that this is true but I'll find out for certain, in 10 day's time.
Over & out
Andy
Most portable satellite systems use off the shelf components: dish, LNB, cable and electronic bits. The new Kathrein CAP 900 was designed from scratch by Kathrein and they say that, because of this, it should have better performance characteristics than a normal dish system of up to 1M. My initial results from testing in Scandinavia suggest that this is true but I'll find out for certain, in 10 day's time.
Over & out
Andy
The performance of the standard Sky minidish first showed the gains (pun intended) to be made by having a carefully shaped dish physically matched to an LNB positioned carefully on a focal point. It is all about converting physical capture area into in-phase reflections at a point.
And that is why I claim in the MHF review of the lightweight, precision Camos dish/LNB being able to outperform a slightly larger dish. But a large 85cm dish would have to be a pretty clumsy design not to outperform a Camos (in terms of signal to noise in the LNB; whether it makes a hoot of difference to picture quality is covered in the earlier post).
Of much more significance, especially on the edge of the footprint where we are talking about the benefits or not of a large dish, is that the skew is adjusted to optimum. This option is available on an Oyster offering, and the Kathrein.
Dave
And that is why I claim in the MHF review of the lightweight, precision Camos dish/LNB being able to outperform a slightly larger dish. But a large 85cm dish would have to be a pretty clumsy design not to outperform a Camos (in terms of signal to noise in the LNB; whether it makes a hoot of difference to picture quality is covered in the earlier post).
Of much more significance, especially on the edge of the footprint where we are talking about the benefits or not of a large dish, is that the skew is adjusted to optimum. This option is available on an Oyster offering, and the Kathrein.
Dave
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